Overseas eggs order?

[zmzfam]

Ok guys,

this is the final list. Will be e-mailing this to David as a confirmation.

Au
Notho. kafuensis 'Nanzhila River' ZMTW 99(30 eggs).

Pohsan
Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Bakebe' (MOE)
Paraphyosemion mirabilis traudae 'Tinto'

Jianyang aka Stormhawk
Simp. zonatus (ZNT)
Simp. alternatus - *if available*

Gan(turaco)
Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Nguti' (MOE)

Kwek Leong
Aphyosemion elberti 'Nange Eboko' (ELB)

Ronnie Lee
Aphyosemion dargei 'Mbam' (DAR)
Aphyosemion poliaki 'Ekona' (PLK)
Chromaphyosemion splendopluere 'Bamukong Ombe' (SPP)
Aphyosemion elberti 'Nnen' (ELB)
Aphyosemion elberti 'Ndouzem' (ELB)

RongSheng
Aphyosemion christyi 'Lobaye' (CHR)

Zulkifli
Aphyosemion coeleste 'GBG 93-2' (COL)
Aphyosemion marginatum 'Bifoum' (MRG)
Callopanchax occidentale 'Mangata' (OCC)
Rivulus agilae 'Mont de Mahury' (AGI)

[killifishdavid]

Okay I have the order and will confirm the total with shipping and all prices in email to Zulkifli on Monday night or Tuesday for you to send payment. The order will be sent via FedEx May 17th for arrival on May 20th. I will also try to give some extra eggs as I am able for you to share
with those who have had poor results from previous shipments.

THANK YOU ALL !!!

[RonWill]

David, perhaps you'd like to clarify if the extra eggs are for which previous shipments; ie. from the 1st mass order or the separate private orders. IMHO, it's always a good thing to ask when in doubt and I'm sure we're all looking forward to new species in our tanks!

With the obligatory stuff covered, I'd like to express my thanks to the participants and also, my disappointment with the low turnout or hobbyists ordering eggs (including the newbies). Let's just say that I had higher expectations esp. when shared Fedex shipping is so fast and very affordable.

Killie eggs do not grow on trees and both Kwek Leong and myself, do not need to be reminded but if the risk-taking are borne by the regulars, there'll come a time when no one will respond to "anyone-has-eggs-to-spare" requests, both local and overseas.

This scenario reminds me of a parlimentary statement quoting, "no one owes you a living". By the same token, no one here is obligated to maintain and sell extra eggs (think about it!!).

It is my personal opinion that for the killifish base stock to be increase and stabilize, and to have a vibrant killie scene, we need newbies' involvement and not fence-sitting.

[killifishdavid]

Ron,
The extra eggs are for which previous shipments; ie. from the 1st mass order . I will send eggs I find at packing time from my stocks, some that come to mind are: gabuense marginatum, australe BSWG !!, australe red/orange, gardneri 'lafia', and ????

I agree with you on the envolvement from newbie's, it does not matter what country you live in, the more individuals in a club or group to work with the fish the better for ALL ! But, especially in a country where it is difficult or virtually impossible to get these species from LFS's.

[timebomb]

It is my personal opinion that for the killifish base stock to be increase and stabilize, and to have a vibrant killie scene, we need newbies' involvement and not fence-sitting.

Ronnie, I agree with you completely but we have to be patient. Hobbyists in Singapore are not used to the idea of raising their own fish from eggs and the fact is prices of Killifish eggs can be quite daunting to a newbie. The other thing is we may have a skewed view of the Killifish scene here. We think many people know about Killies because of this site/forum but the truth is there's no fish shop in Singapore that specialises in the fish. Human traffic beats eyeball traffic hands down anytime.

The day a Killifish fish shop opens in Singapore will be the day the Killifish scene takes off in a big way.

By the way, Zul, if you are reading this, I would suggest you bring the eggs to Eco-culture when they arrive. Eco wouldn't mind, I'm sure of this. We can meet and settle accounts there.

Loh K L

[RonWill]

Kwek Leong, I can't quite believe what I'm reading.

We have hobbyists who've stumbled and fall, but find the strength to pick themselves up, and went on to breed discus, bettas, apistos, corys, angelfish and even fancy guppies, but we can't handle killie eggs? Raising killie fry is not more difficult than out-growing a brood of discus or ranchus.

If the both of us, as newbies, felt awed by the prices and risks, will this forum exist? Why are we over-protecting the newbies? Have we not provided them with enough information, shared our experiences or are the 'old-birds' expected to hold workshops for every aspect of killie keeping? Perhaps we should teach them how to open a bag of egg-laden peat and at the next workshop, show them how to wet the eggs, how to frame a fresh crispie...

Yes, buying eggs is really too risky, so let's play it real safe for SG-based hobbyists and obligate all sellers to replace failed hatchings. Better yet, let us all expect replacements and shipping to be without charge. Will that sweeten the deal and enhance the killie-keeping experience? Will that motivate us or are we short-changing ourselves?

If later-newbies like Au, Sia Meng, Zul and Jian Yang, get discouraged by their early purchases and gave up, are we richer for it? Perhaps I should tell them to stop wasting their time, dedication and money.

Patience is a virtue, and it's one thing I fail miserably with.

But you're right. Let's be patient. Let's wait...
...for newbies to initiate and organise the next egg order.
...for a killie-only specialty store.
...for courier charges to drop.

Henceforth, shall we both relax and wait for others to bring in new species? We can buy eggs from them. Why should we be at the front-line at all times?

I must be patient but comes the day when Killifish-specialty stores open their doors, I'm afraid that the core group of today's killiekeepers may have moved on, as will I. It may be the 'happening event' of the year but history will repeat itself. There will still be people balking at the steep prices for coded wild-caught populations. Then what? Should we be daunted by these $30 fishes and respond to "my expensive killie died before I can breed it. Does anyone have eggs to spare?"

My post is harsh for the newbies but it's time they get real...
I'm not obliged to hold your hands,
to spoonfeed you information,
to provide starter cultures,
to give you free fishes,
or to sell them cheap.

Or would newbies prefer a menu of killies? (nah... you can forget about being spoilt for choices!)

[timebomb]

Kwek Leong, I can't quite believe what I'm reading.

Why not, Ronnie?

There's one thing you may have forgotten - There are very few hobbyists who are as passionate about the hobby as we are. We belong to a different group and the truth is we can't expect there to be many like us.

Just like you, I'm disappointed by the number of hobbyists who participate in this mass-egg ordering exercise but let's not make a big hoo-haa over this. If we can hatch the eggs and breed the fish, we will make it very expensive for the newbies when they want the fish from us - that's about all we can do

Loh K L

[zmzfam]

By the way, Zul, if you are reading this, I would suggest you bring the eggs to Eco-culture when they arrive. Eco wouldn't mind, I'm sure of this. We can meet and settle accounts there.

It is not a problem if you want to meet at Eco-Culture or at my place, since my place is only a 5 mins walk from the (Paya Lebar) MRT station. I can be at Eco by 6pm but can't stay long. Meeting at my place will be after 8pm. Let me know the preferences.

An update to the orders, David has sent out the package and ETA is Thursday 20th May noon. You can check the tracking status HERE.

I will post again the price of the eggs and also the shipping cost once I know the exchange rate. There are altogether 24 bags of eggs - so shipping cost per bag is drastically reduced.

Ok, I believe that David has shipped extra eggs of other sp with this shipments. Any proposal on whom and how to distribute them?

[RonWill]

Zul,

I'm flexible with meeting/collection venue and will pass on the extra egg. But whoever receives them, please don't feel that the species can be neglected because it was free. I'd like to see the species getting established, if all goes well, of course.

Just for the record, the previous participants in the 1st mass order can be found in this thread.

On the brighter side, local hobbyists are receiving a total of 16 new species against 13 from the 1st exercise (excludes duplicate).

Good luck my friends and have those fry foods ready.

[CM Media]

Hi Zul,

6pm should be good for me. I'll see you at Eco Culture and do let me know how much I should pay you for the eggs.

Thanks for your effort in co-ordinating this order. :wink:

[zmzfam]

Hi people.
The exchange rate used is US$1 = S$1.755.
Shipping cost is US$50 so divided by 24 bags = S$3.70
I'll be rounding up to the nearest dollar on the total.

Au
Notho. kafuensis 'Nanzhila River' ZMTW 99(30 eggs). (US$20)
Shipping : $3.70
Eggs : $35.10
Total : $39.00

Pohsan
Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Bakebe' (MOE) (US$15)
Paraphyosemion mirabilis traudae 'Tinto' (US$20)
Shipping : $7.40
Eggs : $61.50
Total : $69.00

Jianyang aka Stormhawk
Simp. zonatus (ZNT) (US$20)
Simp. alternatus - *if available* (David did not have enough time to collect the eggs)
Shipping : $3.70
Eggs : $35.10
Total : $39.00

Gan(turaco)
Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Nguti' (MOE) (US$15)
Shipping : $3.70
Eggs : $26.30
Total : $30.00

Kwek Leong
Aphyosemion elberti 'Nange Eboko' (ELB) (US$24)
Shipping : $3.70
Eggs : $42.20
Total : $46.00

Ronnie Lee
Shipping : $26.00

RongSheng
Aphyosemion christyi 'Lobaye' (CHR) (US$15)
Shipping : $3.70
Eggs : $26.30
Total : $30.00

Those who wants to do bank transfer, my accounts as follows :
POSB Savings 150-01043-8

Collection place:
Eco-Culture on Thursday 20 May between 6pm - 6.30pm. Sorry for the tight timing. Those who wants to collect at my place are welcome to do so after 8pm (PM me for the address). If you want me to leave your eggs with Eco (due to the timing) do let me know also.

[timebomb]

Ronnie Lee
Shipping : $26.00

Zul,

Am I missing something here but why is it Ronnie is not getting any eggs but he still has to pay for shipping?

I'll meet you at Eco at 6 pm. I don't know what we should do with the extra eggs but I'll go through the list of people who ordered eggs the last time and see if I can find a way to distribute them fairly.

Loh K L

[zmzfam]

Am I missing something here but why is it Ronnie is not getting any eggs but he still has to pay for shipping?

Because he's a great fella?

Hmm...maybe should not have put Ronnie's shipping share on-line.
Actually, Ronnie won some aquabid auctions so he decided to pay the eggs cost together to David, to ease my burden, because the total was around USD400

[timebomb]

because the total was around USD400

Wow!!

That's a lot of money to pay for eggs. I hope you guys know what you are doing. Anyway, for the extra eggs, if there's no objection, I'm in favour of giving them to Ronnie whose record of hatching eggs is better than anyone's I know.

Loh K L

[RonWill]

...but why is it Ronnie is not getting any eggs but he still has to pay for shipping?

My my, what sharp eyes you have Kwek Leong :wink:

Nothing is amissed, my friend (you didn't think I'd back out from egg-shopping... or did you? ).

For the 5 species ordered via this exercise, plus another 2 species from my won auctions at Aquabid, I've already paid US$169 directly to David via PayPal. I don't intend to place financial burden/stress to the organising person.

For those extra eggs, yes, priority should go to the previous participants first. Any of them who're still in 'lurk mode' should be allowed to voice their options. But if they feel it's inconvenient to care for fry, we'll consider other alternatives. IMHO, that should be fair enough.

As usual, when these issues are handled transparently, none of us are in questionable status.

[turaco]

Zul,

Thank you for co-ordinating this order. I'll be held up by a function & can't show myself at eco. Can you pm me your address & hp no.? I'll go to your place later in the evening. As for the extra eggs, may I suggest we draw lot? BTW, what species are they?

[A.Rashid]

Zul,

You should know my position, so the free eggs of my share can be given to those who are more interested but if there are no takers may be you or Ronnie can "keep" them for me and will collect them when my setup is ready.


Rashid

[RonWill]

Gan, from what Zul and I are aware, there're possibly 6 bags of eggs for the 9 participants of the 1st mass order.

I'm passing on these eggs and let the rest choose, to share and try again. Please wait for details from David and we'll decide from there.

Rashid, when will the home reno be completed and the tanks ready to receive the little buggers? As soon as we know what's coming, you can make your choice.

I don't mind babysitting the little buggers but please don't wait until they're adults, before you come and collect, ya?

David, I can see the shipment enroute at San Francisco now but could you update us on the species of the extra eggs?

Can someone contact Kah Kheng and Eric Yeo, to inform them and for us to know their decision?

In the event there's more than one taker for the same species, I suppose you guys can either share or draw for it... and before I forget, those who're receiving the 'free eggs' will have to chip in for shipping... fair?

[A.Rashid]

Rashid, when will the home reno be completed and the tanks ready to receive the little buggers? As soon as we know what's coming, you can make your choice.

I don't mind babysitting the little buggers but please don't wait until they're adults, before you come and collect, ya?

Ronnie,

the renovation will finish on the 3rd week of June, then I will be busy with the setup and hopefully if everything goes as plan tank setup will be ready by mid July. By then I'm ready..... :P

[zmzfam]

David, .... but could you update us on the species of the extra eggs?

Reply from David :
"GAR lafia, Riv. xiphidius crique boulanger, AUS BSWG 97-24, not sure of
others some Aphyosemions?"