Our eggs have arrived AGAIN!

**zmzfam** · 21st May 2004, 15:14

Dear people,

As from this thread, Overseas Eggs Order?, these are the people who had received their eggs/frys on 20th May 2004.

Au
Nothobranchius kafuensis 'Nanzhila River' ZMTW 99 [in peat]

Pohsan
Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Bakebe' HAH 98 (MOE) [in peat]
Paraphyosemion mirabilis traudae 'Tinto' CI-03[in breather bag]

Jianyang aka Stormhawk
Simpsonicthys zonatus (ZNT) [in peat]

Gan(turaco)
Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Nguti' HAH 98(MOE) [in peat]

Kwek Leong
Aphyosemion elberti 'Nange Eboko' (ELB) [in breather bag]

Ronnie Lee
Aphyosemion dargei 'Mbam' (DAR) [in breather bag]
Chromaphyosemion poliaki 'Ekona' CI-01 (PLK) [in peat]
Chromaphyosemion splendopluere 'Bamukong Ombe River Sys.' 1999 (SPP) [in peat]
Aphyosemion elberti 'Nnen' (ELB) [in breather bag]
Aphyosemion elberti 'Ndouzem' (ELB) [in breather bag]

RongSheng
Aphyosemion christyi 'Lobaye' (CHR) [in peat]

Zulkifli
Aphyosemion coeleste 'GBG 93-2' (COL) [in breather bag]
Aphyosemion gabunense marginatum 'Bifoun' (MRG) [in breather bag]
Callopanchax occidentale 'Mangata' GM 97/3 (OCC) [in peat]
Rivulus agilae 'Mont de Mahury' (AGI) [in breather bag]

David included some extra eggs for the participants of the 1st mass order and the eggs are:

Aphyosemion australe BWSG 97 / 24 'Port Gentil' [Zulkifli][in peat]
Aphyosemion sp.aff. primigenium GBN 88-10 [Rashid] [in breather bag]

Rivulus derhami 'Tingo Maria' [Kwek Leong] [in breather bag]
Rivulus xiphidius 'Crique Boulanger' [Eric Yeo] [in breather bag]

Paraphyosemion gardneri 'Lafia' [Rongsheng / Lily] [in breather bag]

Please do update the progress of the eggs/frys in this thread, whether you are successful in raising them up or something happened to them. In this way, we will all know what happened and try to learn something along the way.
If you managed to breed them, all the better and we will know what are the species that is available in SG. In future, if there is anymore mass order, we will know what species not to bring in.

**Updated on 29 May 2004 based on this thread http://www.killies.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=577

**turaco** · 21st May 2004, 23:14

Here's a question possibly someone can answer: According to David's site, the Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Nguti' incubation period is 5-8 weeks in peat with temp range 68-74F(Err.. what's that in degree C? Return all these school-days knowledge to my teacher already

). With Singapore HOT weather(Especially this May

30-33C? ), how long, as a rough estimation, should I incubation the eggs?

As for the other 5 free swimming fry of the same species, I'm so glad to see them this big, which means they can start off with bbs without problem :wink: . Would like to thank Zul for his great job that we are able to get our beloved fish that fast. Look forward to exchange in months time guys!

**PohSan** · 21st May 2004, 23:32

Hi Gan,
According to this calculator : http://www.onlineconversion.com/temperature.htm

68-74F is equals to 20 to 23.33 degree C. Me too has a problem estimating the inculation period. So I keep it in my office which has 24 hour air-con at 25 degree C.

Next, my update on my order:
1) Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Bakebe' (MOE) [in peat]
Still under incubation.

2) Paraphyosemion mirabilis traudae 'Tinto' [in breather bag]
7 fry so far.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

**RonWill** · 21st May 2004, 23:56

Gan,
Paraphyosemion / Fundulopanchax eggs can be incubated either in water or peat. Water incubation is usually faster and to take an example, I collected 2 mops from Fp. GAR N'sukka on May 7th and today, Jian Yang scooped out about 15 fry (he lost count after that

) The period in this case was 2 weeks.

IME, when I was maintaining N'sukka and Baissa, I observed that Baissa incubation is slightly longer, probably by 1~1½ week.

With our weather, I'd be tempted to dunk the peat in 6 weeks. Personally, I'll just water incubate now (as I did with my other eggs in peat), in case I miss the hatching window. When were these 'Nguti' eggs collected?

Although I've not done a fry-count, I concur with Gan that it's very encouraging to see large healthy fry that don't need infusoria, microworms or paramecium.

**RonWill** · 23rd May 2004, 07:19

Hi all, here's my mini update on the eggs. Fry count as on May 22nd.

Aphyosemion dargei 'Mbam' (DAR) [in breather bag]
No date info = 9 fry

Aphyosemion elberti 'Nnen' (ELB) [in breather bag]
No date info = 17 fry*

Aphyosemion elberti 'Ndouzem' (ELB) [in breather bag]
No date info = 19 fry*

Aphyosemion poliaki 'Ekona' (PLK) [in peat]
Coll: May 15. Peat dunked 040520
1 fry

Chromaphyosemion splendopluere 'Bamukong Ombe' (SPP) [in peat]
Coll: May 15. Peat dunked 040520
0 fry

RongSheng
Aphyosemion christyi 'Lobaye' (CHR) [in peat]
Coll: May 12. Peat dunked 040520
0 fry

Replacement egg Paraphyosemion gardneri 'Lafia' [Rongsheng / Lily] [in breather bag]
No date info = 10 fry

Won Bid Aphyosemion elberti 'Nange Eboko' (ELB) [in peat]
Coll: May 15. Peat dunked 040520
0 fry

Won Bid Chrom splendopluere 'Tiko' (SPP) [in peat]
Coll: May 12~15th. Peat dunked 040520
7 fry

*There was a shortfall of 'Bamukong Ombe' eggs but extra was packed into the ELBs to make up the difference. Since David didn't specify which ELB 'Nange Eboko' bag was mine, Kwek Leong, if you see more than a dozen eggs/fry, consider that a bonus for you.

I'll be updating as time allows but meanwhile, I couldn't help noticing fry count between breather and peat bag...

**timebomb** · 23rd May 2004, 09:58

Originally Posted by RonWill

Since David didn't specify which ELB 'Nange Eboko' bag was mine, Kwek Leong, if you see more than a dozen eggs/fry, consider that a bonus for you.

Ronnie, there were only a dozen eggs in my bag of ELB 'Nange Eboko'.

Last fry count as of the morning of 23rd May 04 -

Aphyosemion elberti 'Nange Eboko' (ELB) - 8 living fry, 1 dead fry and 1 unhatched egg. 2 eggs disappeared?

Rivulus derhami 'Tingo Maria' - 2 very fat fry (they are huge and have been gorging on baby brine shrimps) and 10 unhatched eggs. The eggs are huge too and look like tadpole eggs. Here's a pic:

Loh K L

**RonWill** · 23rd May 2004, 12:00

oh well... I suppose one should be happy with a possible 9 out of 12 'Nange Eboko'. Isn't too bad and on the brighter side, if I get zilch, we can always swap :wink:

When I first saw the 'Tingo Maria' eggs, I felt these looked larger than AUS eggs. Let's hope these grows faster than my Riv XIP!

Wonder how the rest are doing.

**stormhawk** · 23rd May 2004, 12:44

The ZNT eggs are not due yet I think. Can't see very well through the dark eggshell. These guys are unusually coloured. The eggs look like black marbles and that explains why I can't count them. Some are really coated with peat particles. I could see developing embryos when I used the candling method with my torchlight. According to an incubation guide that I took from a German site, the eggs aren't due for another week or so. Possible earliest date to dunk 'em would be somewhere in early June.. June 7 I think. Will update if any fry decide to appear.

**timebomb** · 23rd May 2004, 18:46

Jianyang,

I don't know if you are aware of this but incubation period guides from breeders living in other countries can be quite deceiving. Temperature is a big factor and over here, eggs hatch a lot earlier than those in colder countries. I would suggest you play safe and err on the early side. Wet the eggs earlier than what you guessed is the right time.

Loh K L

**stormhawk** · 24th May 2004, 00:21

KL, the guide states that the ZNT eggs develop fully within 7 weeks at 27degC incubation temperature. Using that as a rough guide, the eggs aren't due for another week or so. The peat that they were in was pretty dry so to speak. That may affect the development of the embryos. Since the ambient temperature in my room is roughly around 28.6degC or so, I take that they will be due somewhat earlier. I will be wetting the peat again in 2 days time on Tuesday. Let's see what I'll be getting then. :wink:

**RonWill** · 24th May 2004, 03:43

Ok folks, here's a quickie. Fry count as of midnite May 23rd.

Aphyosemion dargei 'Mbam' (DAR) [in breather bag]
No date info = 9 fry NO CHANGE

Aphyosemion elberti 'Nnen' (ELB) [in breather bag]
No date info = 17 fry NO CHANGE *

Aphyosemion elberti 'Ndouzem' (ELB) [in breather bag]
No date info = 19 fry NO CHANGE *

Aphyosemion poliaki 'Ekona' (PLK) [in peat]
Coll: May 15. Peat dunked 040520
1 fry
040523 + 1 fry = 2 fry

Chromaphyosemion splendopluere 'Bamukong Ombe' (SPP) [in peat]
Coll: May 15. Peat dunked 040520
0 fry
040523 = 2 fry

RongSheng
Aphyosemion christyi 'Lobaye' (CHR) [in peat]
Coll: May 12. Peat dunked 040520
0 fry
040523 = 8 fry

Replacement egg Paraphyosemion gardneri 'Lafia' [Rongsheng / Lily] [in breather bag]
No date info = 10 fry NO CHANGE

Won Bid Aphyosemion elberti 'Nange Eboko' (ELB) [in peat]
Coll: May 15. Peat dunked 040520
0 fry NO CHANGE

Won Bid Chrom splendopluere 'Tiko' (SPP) [in peat]
Coll: May 12~15th. Peat dunked 040520
7 fry
040523 + 3 fry = 10 fry

**zmzfam** · 24th May 2004, 09:32

Hi people,

here's an update as of 23 May 2004 night:

Aphyosemion coeleste 'GBG 93-2' (COL) [in breather bag]
No date info
2 living frys, 3 dead frys, some eggs

Aphyosemion marginatum 'Bifoum' (MRG) [in breather bag]
No date info
19 frys

Callopanchax occidentale 'Mangata' (OCC) [in peat]
still under incubation

Rivulus agilae 'Mont de Mahury' (AGI) [in breather bag]
No date info
21 frys

Replacement Aphyosemion australe BWSG 97 / 24 'Port Gentil' [in peat]
Collection May 16 - still in peat

[Rashid]
Replacement Aphyosemion primigenium GBN 88-10 [in breather bag]
No date info
5 frys, 8 eggs

**stormhawk** · 25th May 2004, 08:28

Update on the ZNT:

Counted 15 eyed-up eggs.. no more no less. Guess the other 15 went MIA during incubation.

Anyway, back to the update.

OK so I got pretty itchy and wetted the eggs last night around 2am or so.

Learnt from a friend that zonatus require cooler temperatures to hatch so I figured why not do it at night since they're pretty much eyed-up already. Used cold water from the fridge plus some oxygen tabs. Sloshed the peat around a little bit and left it at a corner for the whole morning. Got pretty antsy but hey, I have to risk it anyway.

Found 2 hatchlings this morning - 8.20am. They're still not free-swimming yet. Can still see their yolk sac. They're HUGE for Simp. fry and darn blackish too. Will take a pic soon. Oh boy am I happy...

Simpsonichthys zonatus (ZNT) [in peat]
Collected: 12 April 04 Wetted: 25 May 04
2 fry

**PohSan** · 25th May 2004, 08:37

Hi,
This is my mini update on the eggs:

1) Paraphyosemion mirabile moense 'Bakebe' (MOE) [in peat]
Still under incubation. (13 eggs)

2) Paraphyosemion mirabilis traudae 'Tinto' [in breather bag]

1 dead fry
1 fungus egg.
7 living fry so far.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

**stormhawk** · 25th May 2004, 08:45

Pohsan, when are the Bakebe eggs due? You should try checking the eggs. I didn't expect the ZNT to be due till next week or so. Read KL's post so I got itchy and wetted the eggs a week before they're supposedly due.

**CM Media** · 25th May 2004, 09:19

Eric Yeo
Rivulus xiphidius 'Crique Boulanger' [in breather bag]
1 Fry todate and 5 eggs under incubation

Au
Notho. kafuensis 'Nanzhila River' ZMTW 99 [in peat]
Still under incubation.

**PohSan** · 25th May 2004, 10:18

Hi Jianyang,

Pohsan, when are the Bakebe eggs due?

It was collected on 10th of May and indicated 6 to 8 weeks incubation period. Since I keep the egg in the office, I planned to wet them on 21st June 2004.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

**stormhawk** · 25th May 2004, 11:42

Pohsan, that's quite awhile. Oh well, gives you time to do other things. :wink:

I must have made a mistake counting the eggs. Found alot more hatchling fry this time round!.

:wink: Anyway here's the latest update.

Update on the ZNT:

Simpsonichthys zonatus (ZNT) [in peat]
30 Eggs
Collected: 12 April 04 Wetted: 25 May 04
8.20am - 2 fry
11.38am - +18 fry = 20 fry!

Made a mistake. Only 20 fry so far, not 21. Must be eyes playing tricks.

Fry housed in 2 containers with 10 fry each. I'm not sure if they're ready to take BBS. In any case, I found 2 eyed-up eggs. Leaving them in the hatching tray for the time being. If they don't hatch by this evening then I'll rebag the peat for another wetting.

**RonWill** · 25th May 2004, 20:35

Poh San, if you plan to wet the 'Bakebe' after the full 8 weeks, I suggest you check on them by the 6th week.

If 80% of the eggs are eyed-up, with well developed iris, it should be 'safe' to dunk.

Do remember that our warm weather shortens the incubation period esp since the past few weeks have been terribly hot!!, I'd hate to think you missed the 'hatching window'.

**PohSan** · 25th May 2004, 21:49

Hi Ronnie,

Poh San, if you plan to wet the 'Bakebe' after the full 8 weeks, I suggest you check on them by the 6th week.

I planned to wet it on 21st June, which is the 6th weeks after collection. I think it is quite safe since I keep it in my office where there are 24 hours air conditioning.

Regards,
Ong Poh San