Breathable bags

[RonWill]

Tom, the tracking feature has room for improvement but I'm glad the fishes are ok.

We will attempt eggs & fry again in subsequent trials, but I think they were stressed-out more by the 100% water-change/repack, rather than the journey. Since their egg-sac were depleted, they could have died of hunger, as Zul suggested.

Wished I swapped some free-swimming fry for developed eggs but I didn't have any at hand (killies are not egg-vending machines!). Thinking of hungry fry, an came up... wonder if they'll do better if I squirt in some paramecium.

Was there any damage to the foam box or sign of water leakage? I hear that the plane's cargo sections are not pressurized and some of the bags are packed limply, to allow for air expansion, I think (otherwise, these bags will over-expand and burst).

I did a few sets of calculations for Royal Mail Postage. Their Airmail Small Packets allows tapes and trade samples.

Royal Mail Airmail Small Packets - Delivery Aim 5 Days
499gm - £5.02
501gm - £5.20
550gm - £5.56
999gm - £9.52
1001gm - £9.70

The charges for "International Signed For Airmail Letter - Delivery Aim 5 Days" isn't that outrageous either but only "Signed parcels" are trackable, not "Airmail Small Packets".

International "Signed For items" are electronically tracked only up to the point they leave the UK.... not much point since you don't know when the parcel arrive at their destination.

Living Creatures...
"The following are accepted: bees; silkworms; leeches and certain parasites, destroyers of noxious pests, and other insects sent to or from officially recognised institutions. In addition the following may be sent to destinations within the United Kingdom - mealworms, earthworms, caterpillars, ragworms, pupae and chrysalids, lugworms, maggots and fish fry and eggs"

I used rubber bands to secure the bags, so that you can reuse them instead of cutting through a knot and there a few extra new bags on the side (in case you missed it).

Let's see how well your new additions acclimatize to the new water.

Zul, we have to count our blessings... fry aside, the rest of the fishes did very well and that's very encouraging. Let me work on other packing alternatives :wink:

[RonWill]

I've been reading this thread with much interest. A friend in New York is asking me to send some fish over to him and these bags sound like the answer to my worries.

Can anyone direct me to where I can buy them in Singapore?

Hi "Is-That-Your-Real-Name" Victri,
How could I have missed your post? but great if our replies solve your problems.

These shipping bags are not the solution to all species; those with splines that can puncture bags or labrynth (sp?) species like bettas and gouramis (sp?).

Plenty of online stores if you can wait and I believe one of our forumers got it from Aquabid's Shipping Supplies section.

The ones I used in this thread are about 3" x 7" and comes in a strip of 5 bags. I have extras of these and are available at $5 per strip. If you don't need alot of it, then drop me an email.

[shortman]

Ronnie,

As far as I konw there are two sources

http://www.novalek.com/kpd74.htm
http://www.theshippingbarn.com/polybags.htm

and it is cheaper to get from the source.

Best Regards

[victri]

Oh, my real name is Vic (as in my signature).

So I guess there isn't any store that sells it locally? I'll take a look at the links. Thanks. The heads-up on the spiny fish is a great piece of info to keep in mind.

I'll contact you once I know how many I need. If it's a lot, I'll order from the online stores. Thanks for your offer.

[RonWill]

I'll contact you once I know how many I need. If it's a lot, I'll order from the online stores. Thanks for your offer.

Vic, if you're ordering from the 2nd link, ie. 'The Shipping Barn', let me know. They are affiliated with 'The Bug Farm' and I may want to increase my 'live-food culture' collection.

I won't consider their Wingless Fruitfly (D. melanogaster) or Flightless Fruitfly (D. studevent hydei). In our warm weather, both these species will adapt, develop functional wings and fly off (don't ask me how I found out) but their Daphnia magna & pulex sp. starter culture looks tempting enuff.

They have Kordon Breathing Bags too (4 x 8 inches @ US$13.50/100 's). IMHO, this is the best size for bagging individual fishes or one small non-aggressive pair and oh... did I mention that their mini basters looks tempting for non-contamination of cultures?

[zmzfam]

... I'll order from the online stores. Thanks for your offer.

Vic, if you're ordering from overseas, do post your intention here as some members can ride on your order and share shipping cost.

[victri]

Vic, if you're ordering from overseas, do post your intention here as some members can ride on your order and share shipping cost.

Great idea! I'll take a look through the online stores. Will post if I decide to order online.

[blinkytom]

Ronnie, the box was completely intact and there were no signs of it being bashed about. The wasn't any water leakage but the bags did feel a little clamy, is this normal?

My reason for looking at services other than AirMail small packets was so I could use a bigger box for more fish. Your box seemed to be at its capacity with 10 bags, weighing in just over 500g. I don't know how I will fit twice that many fish into a "small packet".

Our tracking system doesn't seem to be much good. All they really seem to do is get a signiture at the recieving end to confirm the package has been delivered.

So fish fry and eggs are allowed within the UK but it doesn't say anything about sending overseas. When I first started sending eggs, the people at the Post Office would always check whether the recipient country could recieve the eggs and I never had any problems. So if fish eggs and fish fry are lumped together in the rule book I would guess you are allowed to send fish fry overseas. Even so I'm not sure about labeling them as fry because it may attract attention from the customs workers.

All the bags are intact and ready to be reused. I also ordered some Kordon 4x8" bags from someone of Aquabid so I have plenty now.

[RonWill]

Tom, I can't imagine what 'clamy' looks or feel like. Could you describe further?

The unmodified Hikari foam box, at almost twice the height of the one you received, can fit in about 20 bags and is still within "small packet" catagory. Need one? :wink:

[blinkytom]

Ronnie, 'clamy' means that it feels slightly damp to touch, not wet but not dry either.

Don't worry about sending the unmodified box, I'll have a good look round the house to find something useable. Now my exams are finished I have about two and a half months off school so I'll have plenty of time to make one even.

[bobalston]

A lot of folks here in the US use the 3-inch bags, one fish per bag, and then put both bags in a 4-inch bag. I think these are often the non breathable ones. But the same should work for breathable, as the water amount is likely the same (small amount of water) and just the air pocked eliminated from the bags.

Bob

[RonWill]

Tom, so long as the bags aren't leaking, we're safe. I'm guessing that the variation in atmospheric pressure causes micro-droplets to 'bleed' from the bag ( anyone want to hazard another guess )

I collected a pretty huge foam box from the LFS. Let me know how you wish to modify it.

Bob, double-bagging is common practice when dealers deliver fishes to the stores but AFAIK, breathers work only if a space is maintained between bags. That's why foam peanuts, newspaper and loose packing material is recommended.

The other part I don't fully understand is whether if there's gaseous exchange without water.

As far as I'm concerned, it's still best keeping to 'one fish per bag', especially for rarer fishes.

[whuntley]

Do me a favor and check the breather bags out with the folks at:

http://www.thefishwizards.com/html/fish4sale.htm

Tony Terceira is a long-time supporter of killifish and author of the great book, Killifish, Their Care and Breeding 1974. Pisces Publishing.

In addition to selling bags, he can give the latest on just how best to pack them. You have to e-mail them for prices and sizes, but the addy is in the web page cited.

BTW, I have no commercial connection, but Tony and I are old net friends with a common photography interest. He is a past Chairman of the AKA and very expert killifish breeder.

Wright

[stormhawk]

Just to drag out this thread out of the dustbox, I'm wondering about the article Tom mentioned.

Tom, has your friend done up the article yet and yes, have you tried sending out the fish back to Ron? I'm really curious as to the end result. I understand you're around but hopefully this post will trigger off a response from you.

Wright, not be a damper but I sent an email to Tony some time back regarding a fish ad he posted on AB. Probably his email client isn't working or something but there has been no reply at all from that email I sent about 7 months ago? Surely he would have the basic courtesy to reply the query even if the shipment is not possible?

On the other note, I am getting a copy of his book via the good graces of a friend in Michigan who's sending me one that he found in a bookstore dealing in second-hand books.

[blinkytom]

Hello Jianyang

I haven't been in touch with Steve for a few months now. I'll shoot him off an email later. As you can see I'm still about but a little quiet (ok, I guess little quiet is an understatement!!). I will be making a return shipment in the near future, still a risk of frost in the UK but this seems to be improving.

Just as a side line, I have a number of young Fp. gardneri N'sukka Blue (Pat Coleman strain) from the pair Ron sent sexing out. Do you guys have these established in Singapore?

[CM Media]

Just as a side line, I have a number of young Fp. gardneri N'sukka Blue (Pat Coleman strain) from the pair Ron sent sexing out. Do you guys have these established in Singapore?

Hi Tom,

Here, we are having problem to get them to spawn. Their size is huge but hardly give fertile eggs even the female are of good size. I've pass my remaining fish to Ron.

[RonWill]

I haven't been in touch with Steve for a few months now. I'll shoot him off an email later

Yes Tom, please do. I've been left wondering if that shipping article made it to the press. Would be great if other hobbyists were involved in the 'breather experiment', so we can examine alternative methods.

As you can see I'm still about but a little quiet (ok, I guess little quiet is an understatement!!)

Likewise here but so long as you and the killies are doing fine, that's what matters. I've been busy with work, the two multi-tier racks, breeding cories, starting new live-food cultures and of course, experimenting with different packing methods for pygmy cories (I'm using young C. habrosus as lab rats).

I will be making a return shipment in the near future

I'd be delighted with that, Tom, and a most appreciated gesture. Drop me a note when you've got a box that's good to go.

Meanwhile, a 2nd Gathering (much like the one we held in 2003) is on the drawing board and we're hoping to time it with Aquarama 2005 (26~29th May). If we're lucky, killie-keepers from the Asia-Pacific belt can also attend the gathering and share their experience with us.

Later on, I'll be running a recruitment drive and selection for Group/Species Co-ordinators, and also more participants, which translates to more tank space available for species maintenance. (so now you know why I've been quiet <VBG>)

As for the Fp. gardneri N'sukka (Pat Coleman's Blue Phenotype), your pair was from the same brood but ironically, both Au and myself couldn't get a single viable fry (no kidding!!). At close to 10cm, they are not small and definitely mature, yet all collected eggs get fungicised. I'm uncertain where the problem lies but perhaps they need a woman's gentle touch <grin>.

[selena]

KILLIES LADIES BEWARE

As for the Fp. gardneri N'sukka (Pat Coleman's Blue Phenotype), your pair was from the same brood but ironically, both Au and myself couldn't get a single viable fry (no kidding!!). At close to 10cm, they are not small and definitely mature, yet all collected eggs get fungicised. I'm uncertain where the problem lies but perhaps they need a woman's gentle touch <grin>.

Should Ronnie sweet-talked ( he is very good in it) to you, BEWARE. Don't look into his eyes, you might (blur blur) end up with a pair in your tank

[stormhawk]

Ronnie's a sweet talker but he has the interests of the hobby at heart. It would be good to have the ladies help out a little though.

[RonWill]

...but perhaps they need a woman's gentle touch

Should Ronnie sweet-talked ( he is very good in it) to you, BEWARE. Don't look into his eyes, you might (blur blur) end up with a pair in your tank

Before the ladies misconstrue my post (and intentions ), the 'they' refer to the fishes. I'm no newcomer to breeding fishes but the N'sukka (Blue Pheno) really baffle me. Au should be equally puzzled too, why the eggs are non-viable.

As for charming the ladies, I've my hands full with 3 at home. That ought to keep me happy and contented

Selena, will you be visiting this weekend? Let me know so I can pre-pack a pair of the N'sukka.

If the other ladies; ie. Lily, Esther and Joanne are keen to help backup and breed some non-annuals species, the effort will be appreciated. I need assistance with;
Aphyosemion ahli
Ap. australe Cape Esterias EBT 96-27
Paraphyosemion mirabile moense Nguti HAH-98,
Epiplatys togolensis

Not releasing any Chromaphyosemion bitaeniatum or splendopleure for the moment as these will make their appearance during our tentative 2nd Gathering. (besides, the sub-adults have just started coloring up and I want to enjoy them first)

To get back on topic, let's just await for further updates from Tom.