Moss ID

[James..........]

In another thread, a Dr Tan was being consulted in order to determine the correct scientific names for various types of aquatic mosses. This sounds like a great idea, and I congratulate those involved with doing it. I'd also like to say that the quality of the photographs posted here is amazing. Some of you are excellent macro-photographers.

I notice that the link to Dr. Tan's biography is no longer active. Could someone tell me which institution he is attached to? Is he a Bryologist? (Bryologist = an expert in mosses and liverworts)

As you have found out, identifying mosses can take an expert and a lot of work. Most are only positively identified using a microscope and examining the spore capsules.

However, I question Dr. Tan's assertion that Fontinalis antipyretica is actually a member of the genus Vesicularia. Maybe the moss presented to him WAS a species of Vesicularia, but there most definately IS a Fontinalis antipyretica, and it grows all over the world, primarily in cooler water than you would encounter in Singapore. The genus Fontinalis (Willow Moss is the common name) has many species and subspecies (as does the genus Vesicularia), and they are both distributed worldwide. (mainly Fontinalis in cool water, Vesicularia in tropical water).

I doubt that all other bryologists (except for Dr. Tan) could have consistently misidentified a moss which is so common. Fontinalis is placed by most bryologists in the family Fontinalceae. Other members of the family include Brachelyma and Dichelyma. The whole family is usually described as being aquatic. Most Fontinalis species inhabit cold, flowing water, and most are found in northern regions. Maintaining F. antipyretica in a tropical aquarium can be very difficult (it grows naturally in cold, flowing water) - I've been trying to do it for years without much success. Vesicularia is a member of the family Hypnaceae, which has over 60 different genera. Some are aquatic, most are terresterial. There are many species of Vesicularia, some from SE Asia, and some from S America.

My initial scepticism over the naming of Christmas Moss has long since subsided. In the absence of any valid scientific name, a common name will have to suffice. This goes for all of the other local names you fellows have given the mosses you can get in Singapore. Just don't forget that there are people here who DON'T live in Singapore, so we can't just jog down to the local aquarium stores you mention and pick up a new species of moss whenever we'd like to. Other than Java Moss, which is widely available commercially, the mails are most people's only avenue to obtain rare mosses. And the generosity several of you display in mailing mosses around the world is commendable.

So, please contine with your efforts to find new mosses which can live in aquariums and contine consulting experts to determine the proper ID for them. Its this kind of enthusiasm which makes it a pleasure to be involved in this hobby.

James Purchase
Toronto, Canada

[hwchoy]

Prof Benito Tan is indeed a bryologist and apparently a very good one as he was nominated by his fellow bryologists in a recent worldwide conference for some very prestigous award.

He is also Deputy Chair (I think) of the Raffles Museum of Biodiversity Research (RMBR), part of the National University of Singapore's Faculty of Science.

I don't follow your assertion regarding him saying Fontinalis antipyretica being a Vesicularia, which is patently absurb. I believe what was being said is that what was sold in Singapore as willow moss, is actually a Vesicularia spp. Perhaps you can find that post and we'll look at it again?

[timebomb]

Dear James,

Am I glad you came on board. Welcome to the forum.

Professor Benito Tan is a bryologist and a world-renowned one at that. Recently, he won an award known as the Richard Spruce Award. The award, given to him by the International Association of Bryologists was in recognition for his work on mosses, liverworts and hornworts. Prof Tan is from the National University of Singapore's Biological Science Department. He's a Filipino by birth but has been residing in Singapore for many years.

Before he met us, Prof Tan wasn't aware that there were so many hobbyists growing mosses in their tanks. He thought hobbyists grow only Java Moss and the common names we used for the other mosses (for instance, Christmas, Erect etc) were all news to him.

I don't know where you found the information that Prof Tan said Fontinalis antipyretica is actually a member of the genus Vesicularia. As far as I know, Prof Tan said there are many varieties of F. antipyretica, some of which are var. cymbifolia, var. gigantea, var. antipyretica and var. gracilis but he never said they were Vesicularia. Could you have possibly made a mistake, James?

Before we met the Professor, there was no way we could identify the various mosses correctly. In order to distinguish one from the other, we had to give them common names. I plead guilty to being the one who seem to name mosses haphazardly but like I said once, someone's got to do the dirty work .

It may interest you to know that we now have the scientific names of the various mosses, namely, Taiwan, Christmas, Singapore, Erect and Weeping Moss. We also learnt from the Prof that Java Moss is actually a species of Taxiphyllum and not Vesicularia as initially thought. But I'm afraid we can't disclose the scientific names now because that would be pre-empting the Prof whose scientific paper on these mosses won't be published until the end of this year.

If you want to read up more on the various mosses, please click here, here and here.

Mostly, I've been the one who's been spreading the news of the various mosses to this forum. I've always tried to be accurate with the genus and species names but sometimes, my memory fails me and I could have made mistakes. The Prof, by the same token, has always been very careful and he won't make any assertions until he's very sure. I offered to bring some mosses from India to him for identification but he declined because he said his field of expertise covers only Malesian mosses.

Loh K L

[Slaigar]

Hello James,
Glad to see another Canadian on board. I have read quite a bit of the threads on moss id's awhile back and I do not recall Willow moss being classified under the Vesicularia genus... but I skim quite a bit.

I was skeptic on the name Christmas moss as well. Before I actually saw the moss, I always thought of java moss with green and red speckles! The common names will have to do, especially in North America. For now atleast, using scientific names for mosses is not much use when the public is oblivious to the existence of them. Hopefully the number of common names for a single species will stay minimal.

[James..........]

Loh K L wrote "I don't know where you found the information that Prof Tan said Fontinalis antipyretica is actually a member of the genus Vesicularia. As far as I know, Prof Tan said there are many varieties of F. antipyretica, some of which are var. cymbifolia, var. gigantea, var. antipyretica and var. gracilis but he never said they were Vesicularia. Could you have possibly made a mistake, James?"

Anything is possible, but I read that here. As luck would have it, I can't find the posting again (I've been thru all of the moss posts several times looking for it). I believe is was in connection with a moss which someone believed to be one species but Prof Tan ID'd it as another.

As for Dr. Tan and his reputation, yes, I AM familiar with him (I have a couple of scientific papers he has authored) and he very definately IS an acknowledged expert of Malayesian bryophytes. But don't be surprized at how helpful he is to hobbyists. For someone at the top of their field like he is, to find out that regular aquarium hobbyists are interested in his area of expertise is probably a big treat, and he's more than willing to share his knowledge.

I'd like to be kept up to date regarding the paper he is writing (the Journal it appears in would be helpful, so that I might obtain a copy of it).

But I'm still GREEN with envy over the fact that a lot of you can find various mossed locally, both in stores and in local streams. Why did my parents have to live in a northern country??? lol

James Purchase
Toronto, Canada

[Green Baron]

Hi James,
I was with KL when Prof Tan ID the mosses and I am very sure he did not say Fontinalis is a member of the genus Vesicularia ! I don't belive someone with the stature as Prof Tan can make such an absurd statement - that Fontinalis which is a genus, as being a member of another genus, Vesicularia !

I agree with Choy that what was being said (written) was that 'Willow Moss' that is being sold in Singapore are either Vesicularia sp or Taxiphyllum sp and not the real Fontinalis antipyretica

[Green Baron]

I'd like to be kept up to date regarding the paper he is writing (the Journal it appears in would be helpful, so that I might obtain a copy of it).

James Purchase
Toronto, Canada

James,
I believe the article will be published in the July edition of the Singapore Science Center magazine. We will most likely be able to reproduce the article in this forum so keep a look out for the announcement.

[timebomb]

Anything is possible, but I read that here. As luck would have it, I can't find the posting again

James, could it be you read that in one of my posts. In my first post after meeting the professor, I wrote:

Fourth surprise - Willow Moss, scientific name Fontinalis antipyretica. No mixed-up about the common and scientific name of this plant but what we thought to be Willow Moss is actually Java Moss in disguise I brought some for Dr Tan to examine and he said what I had were Java Moss. I'm inclined to believe that many of the so-called Willow Mosses sold in some fish shops in Singapore are also actually Java Mosses. Dr Tan said Willow Moss is not native to the regions around here.

The phrase "Willow Moss is actually Java Moss in disguise" can be misinterpreted to mean that Willow and Java belong to the same genus.

For someone at the top of their field like he is, to find out that regular aquarium hobbyists are interested in his area of expertise is probably a big treat, and he's more than willing to share his knowledge.

The professor is a humble guy and he's been very generous with his time and expertise. He's terrified though that I may go around spreading the wrong information about the mosses .

I'd like to be kept up to date regarding the paper he is writing (the Journal it appears in would be helpful, so that I might obtain a copy of it).

That shouldn't be a problem at all, James. When the paper's out, I will send a photocopy of it to you.

But I'm still GREEN with envy over the fact that a lot of you can find various mossed locally, both in stores and in local streams. Why did my parents have to live in a northern country???

Be GREEN no more, my friend. Just let me have your mailing address through private message and I'll send you the mosses.

I believe the article will be published in the July edition of the Singapore Science Center magazine. We will most likely be able to reproduce the article in this forum so keep a look out for the announcement.

Gan, when I last saw the professor, he told me that there's going to be a delay. Seems like the magazine won't be out until the end of this year. I don't know if we can reproduce the full text of the article here in this forum as there may be copyright issues but the professor promised to send me the microscope pictures of the mosses.

Loh K L

[Green Baron]

Gan, when I last saw the professor, he told me that there's going to be a delay. Seems like the magazine won't be out until the end of this year.

The article was written in March and we have to wait till end of the year Maybe we should consider publishing it in some other journal e.g. AGA ?

I don't know if we can reproduce the full text of the article here in this forum as there may be copyright issues but the professor promised to send me the microscope pictures of the mosses.

Prof Tan owns the content. It should be ok to publish the full text here as long as we have his permission and we don't replicate the layout.

[timebomb]

Maybe we should consider publishing it in some other journal e.g. AGA ?

You mean TAG (The Aquatic Gardener), don't you? Come to think of it, that's a good idea. I will ask the professor on his thoughts on this the next time I see him. Although his scientific paper on the mosses isn't published yet, I've seen the draft copy. The prof did not include Weeping Moss in his paper because at the time of submission, we were not at Oriental yet. In his paper, the prof wrote about Java, Christmas, Singapore, Erect, Taiwan and Willow Moss.

I think I can persuade the professor to write a more comprehensive article on the various mosses available to hobbyists in Singapore for TAG but we have to wait for him to come home from Finland first.

Loh K L

[Green Baron]

You mean TAG (The Aquatic Gardener), don't you? Come to think of it, that's a good idea. I will ask the professor on his thoughts on this the next time I see him.

I meant TAG. I believe he will be keen as he asked us if there is any aquatic plant journal which he should publish the moss article.

Although his scientific paper on the mosses isn't published yet, I've seen the draft copy. The prof did not include Weeping Moss in his paper because at the time of submission, we were not at Oriental yet. In his paper, the prof wrote about Java, Christmas, Singapore, Erect, Taiwan and Willow Moss.

I have seen the final draft as well. I think it would be great if we can have Weeping Moss as well as Stringy Moss in the article.