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Thread: Daphnia Culturing

  1. #21
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    Hi everyone!

    Well, the Simpsonichthys are indeed nice, arenīt they?...I want to get a few species for myself soon... so far I only have S. whitei (or is it nematolebias? the fish keeps having itīs name changed!) Anyway, you have all those marvelous wild bettas near you and I canīt find any of them here unless Iīm really lucky.

    Back to the daphnia, it seems like the potato slices I added to the tank were very usefull as fertilizer, because the useless algae clumps at the bottom of the tank have turned into the best algae bloom Iīve ever had!!
    I wonīt be able to see if the daphnia do well on the bacteria that were being produced but Iīm happy anyway as with all that greewater the fish will soon have a lot to eat

    Guilherme

  2. #22
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    Ron, found this pretty informative link on the CAKC website.

    http://www.amidchaos.com/cakc/articles/uf_01.html

    Moina culturing and an interesting bit about Moina micrura being cultured in Singapore. Now we know what's the species of water flea that we're feeding to our fish.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

  3. #23
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    I tried an outdoor culture in a large container and added a few daphnia, yeast and let it sit. The population exploded-and I was able to collect more than enough for all the fish whenever I wanted. Unfortuanately, hydra and then hair algae ruined an otherwise excellent culture.

    I have one sweater box running inside, on yeast, but it hasn't "bloomed"-but I haven't harvested much either.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormhawk
    Ron, found this pretty informative link on the CAKC website.

    http://www.amidchaos.com/cakc/articles/uf_01.html

    Moina culturing and an interesting bit about Moina micrura being cultured in Singapore. Now we know what's the species of water flea that we're feeding to our fish.
    JianYang,

    Ronnie should have 2-3 different types of Daphnia culture by now.
    I believe Ronnie use the this to culture the Daphnia and another culture.

    Ronnie, any status report for that.

    Cheers

  5. #25
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    Salt water phytoplankton will not do well in a fresh-water culture, so that looks like an expensive way to feed Daphnia, when compared to the cheap and easy way that works for many.

    Mach Fukada, of HI, and Robert Nhan, of CA, have both described excellent ways to do it.

    The Florida article is right on, in that it shows that the green water and the Daphnia must be cultured separately and then the green water fed to the Daphnia as required, per Mach's methods.

    Robert Nhan always grew his green water outdoors, with a few small goldfish in the tank to eat any Daphnia, clumping green algae, etc., that might compete with the Euglena (o/e) free-swimming flagellates. The fish food and waste was the primary food for the green water. I have used Paradise Fish and Cynolebias for the same purpose. I have found that a cautious use of "Miracle Grow" plant food would really produce a thick green soup, but the urea and ammonium in it is too rough on the fish.

    Mach has gotten enormous production of Moina, which he has described somewhere in an article. A google search might turn it up. Ah, yes. Dogpile.com yielded:

    http://www.angelfire.com/biz2/hifish...er_culture.htm


    Wright
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

  6. #26
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    Not too sure which algae concentrate Ronnie using the local company does have Isochrysis for fresh water. But I believe it is from the same source the local company does have few type.

  7. #27
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    Wright, those are dead plankton. So that it doesn't affect the PH and it won't out growth the Daphnia culture. Ease of control is the key.

    I am having this problem with my rotifer culture now. Too much green water growthing too much right in the rotifer culture. Even without any fertilizer.
    KeeHoe.

  8. #28
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    Another methods (sans green water) is to use yeast. You can feed the Daphnia culture directly a yeast-water solution. Feed just enough to slightly cloud the water and then allow to clear. When clear feed some more. Watch the water parameters though... You do not want to kill the Daphnia with yeast. Before feeding you can add some spirulina powder with the yeast to supplement them. This may be more economical by first collecting some Daphnia into a smaller bucket and then feed the spirulina. Daphnia are O2 hogs so have some aeration.

    There is no need for a green water culture to culture Daphnia.

    For those with a prexisting culture, to fire it up a bit add some sugar water to the culture. DO NOT simply toss in sugar! You will have to experiment to see what amount of sugar works best. Those with a copy of ROTOW handy can look and see how much Scheel used per L. This works very well! and can also be employed to generate CO2 in planted tanks.

    Regards

  9. #29
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    Other choice of food includes. 1) Animal blood. 2) Milk
    I prefer Milk as is is most readily available from supermarket and it doesn't stink as bad.
    KeeHoe.

  10. #30
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    All this discussion of methodology and culture is getting me a bit irritated. [Guess I'll just vent my spleen here instead of the Chill Out forum. ]

    When I moved to the Owens Valley, I wasn't keeping fish for that first year, so Daphnia were something I looked for, but not a priority item. This summer, I really needed them, so looked in every puddle, spring and ditch for signs of them.

    Nothing!

    I even tried to catch some from one lake at least 90 miles south of here, but they were not to be found (tho reported to be there by a killy friend). My suspicion is that measures to control the avian flu and/or the other mosquito-borne diseases may have been more effective at killing all the Daphnia near the valley floor.

    After watching Mach Fukada's valiant attempts to get Moina established in CA by sending many, many bags to WCWs, I have concluded that local bugs may be easier to keep going. To my knowledge, no one has kept the HI Moina going for very long, here. I have no idea why, but they don't keep replicating like they do for him. [Wish I had some to try. ]

    As spring is really here, it rains instead of snows, I'll start looking again. The fisheries folk at the local Fish and Game office have been no help, as they don't observe down to that level very often, I guess.

    I need to try collecting in the Pleasant Valley Reservoir or Crowley Lake, next. Daphnia are never found in waters with many tiny fish, like pupfish, chubs or baby trout. Small fish eat all of them. Rich waters with lots of big fish will probably be more productive, as the big fish eat all the little predators. [Have to watch out for those F&G folk, tho, as they take a dim view of netting trout. ]

    There were great clouds of them in Lake Mead when we were there for the Desert Springs work party, last spring -- also 50 lb. carp and 5 lb goldfish! Didn't think to collect any, tho, as I didn't know, then, how rare they are here.

    Any suggestions for things I haven't thought of to try?

    Anyone had a culture dry out on them? I'd love to have some of the bottom scrapings to see if I could get them going from the cysts. I once got a culture started from some dried Daphnia from the LFS. I suspect it was a fluke, tho, and not likely to repeat, especially now that freeze-drying is so common.

    I'm going to Portland, to WCW, in two weeks, so will try to score a few live-food cultures, there.

    Next weekend is an excursion to Death Valley to see what is billed as the best wildflower spring in many, many years. It has been much wetter than normal, so will haul my digital camera along.

    Your suggestions gratefully accepted.

    Wright
    Daphnia-starved in the high desert.
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

  11. #31
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    Hi Kho and all,
    I used to culture what I thought were daphnia until it was pointed out to me that those were Moina micrura.

    These little critters are almost comparable in size to newly hatched baby brine shrimps and the biggest advantage of using Moina over BBS, is that Moina will survive and even reproduce, until eaten.

    Yes, Kho, I was also experimenting with phytoplankton blend+yeast to see if the cultures are more prolific than using just greenwater alone, but the results are non-conclusive. [Harvest from the various tubs is still insufficient to meet my needs]

    I no longer culture Moina but instead, diverting my attention to Daphnia magna and freshwater rotifer.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by whuntley
    Any suggestions for things I haven't thought of to try?
    Wright, I recently received Daphnia magna and rotifer cultures via EMS and if I can get to resub these, there's no reason why you can't.

    For starters from cysts, you might want to consider Daphnia magna ephippium.


    A cluster of ephippium or 'winter eggs'.


    Sampling of adult and baby magna from another live starter culture.

    My cultures are fed twice daily with tetraselmis, which I believe is SW microalgae for filter-feeders.

    Owing to space constrain, I stack take-out containers, like what I used to do with Moina cultures.


    If you insist on live Moina, how about this? Whichever route you decide, please keep us updated.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  13. #33
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    Found something good in Health food store yesterday.

    Superior Chlorella 200mg No Binders in Tablet form. It is certified free from Yeast, wheat, corn, milk, egg soy, glutens, suger, artificial colours, starch or preservatives. Under discount about $35 per bottle. Once you grind them into powder, it double its size.

    Guys, talking about Algae paste. This is it. Instant green water and no effect in PH.
    KeeHoe.

  14. #34
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    urm... Kee Hoe, are you planning on taking it yourself or for the cultures? 35 $macker$ seems a wee bit much when I'm still using home-made concoctions with spirulina, yeast, corn flour and a little sugar.

    The combo together with phytoplankton, that I mentioned earlier, seems to work great. (ask Kho, I just passed him a D. magna starter culture).

    It's encouraging that you're trying other alternatives and do update us on your observation/progress.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  15. #35
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    Ron, i have had reasonable success by using a 4 feet like lying on top of the daphnia container 24/7 and feed on milk and occationally spirulina.

    All until i bought a big bag of daphnia and pour it in. It smell so bad that i can not stand. Dump everything away. The remaining doesn't adept well with new water condition. It doesn't work out as i am moving the equipment to the stainless steel rack for 24/7 lighting and airation. That is for my Green water , Rotifer and Daphnia culture.

    Can i, get some starter culture for both type of daphnia and microworm from you in next visit?

    I trying to setup something that is Girlfriend/ Mother friendly culture. So that i can keep them long term. I think snail is a must to maintain live culture as it cleans away all the dead one. But do keep some sleeping egg so that in worst case, it can be restarted slowly without too much of a pain.
    KeeHoe.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by keehoe
    Can i, get some starter culture for both type of daphnia and microworm from you in next visit?
    Instead of using those small takeaway containers, I now have the Daphnia magna culture in a 2ft tank and it's much more stable.


    I see a good number of baby magna and hopefully, I can raise enough starter cultures for sale during our 2nd gathering.

    Kee Hoe, when your culture containers are ready, drop by my place for Daphnia magna, Moina micrura and Walter Worm starters. If you have a clean rotifer culture, bring some along because I've accidentally contaminated mine.

    I trying to setup something that is Girlfriend/ Mother friendly culture. So that i can keep them long term
    urm... is it the girlfriend, mother or culture that you're keeping long term [heh heh... that was such a large practice target that I couldn't resist ]

    Your logic on snails is correct. Without them, the water quality deteriorate very quickly, even if you have aeration and sponge filtration going. Moderate feeding and generous clumps of plants will also help prevent culture crashing but how do you trigger production of 'sleeping' eggs?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    To produce winter egg: make the culture crash, slowly. When the culture is under threats they will start produce male daphnia and start reproduce "normally" and these will make each female daphnia produce 2 winter egg.

    The winter egg will take 2 to 5 days to hatch under correct condition.
    Some people mention that during these period of time the female will "program" the winter egg to hatch when certain condition is met.
    (mainly, good PH, good water, 16hour light, with sufficient food around)

    But have to make sure no snail. Because the snail will eat away the winter egg as well. Slowly crash, so that the culture have time to produce male and produce winter egg. To trigger, either change the shorten lighting hours, over crowd, change of PH, change of temperature. Make them uncomfortable and they will do that.

    For the Rotifer, i will bring some "culture" water over as i can't see the creature. May be you can find them with your microscope. If can't find, then i will order more starter culture.

    I still have a pack of winter egg for saltwater rotifer. Should i culture that also?
    KeeHoe.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by keehoe
    To produce winter egg: make the culture crash, slowly. When the culture is under threats they will start produce male daphnia and start reproduce "normally" and these will make each female daphnia produce 2 winter egg
    Kee Hoe,
    I still can't imagine how this crashing work but will squeeze more details from you when we next meet.

    Meanwhile, I thought you might like to see how the magna culture is doing. The addition of plants are really effective in maintaining water quality and it seems like the daphnia love hanging around the plants during the day... eating maybe?

    Daphnia magna culture - with hornwort, java fern and floaters.
    [Clickable images]
    If you still can't see the little buggers, try this and this [really big images ]

    For the rotifer, they are sooooo tiny that I can't see them too Just bring some 'culture water' along and we'll examine it further.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  19. #39
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    Ron, this morning i hatched some Austrolebia nigripinnis "Ibicuisito AF02/1". So out of desperation i took some culture water (rotifer) and pour into the hatch tray. Together with vinegar eel and bbs. The fry are big but seems ignoring BBS.

    Some of these fry develope strange symtom. I suppose there are bellyslider just that they have problem sinking in stead of floating.

    Also hatched Notho guentheri zanzibar (from Au) and they are so tiny that i feed them the combination of 3 also.

    i can see that on my rotifer culture water, there is a fine layer of dust like particle hanging there. May be those are rotifer.
    KeeHoe.

  20. #40
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    1) If female --> egg ---> baby, the process take 2-3 days.
    2) If female + male --> egg --> baby, the process takes a week.

    egg produce by process 1 is fragile but hatch readily.
    egg produce by process 2 is tough and able to survive all weather and even diluted clorox for up to 5minutes won't kill them.

    female --> egg --> male baby --> adult male only when their survival is under threat. (note that this process may take a week)

    The threat could be any of the following
    1) Unsuitable PH
    2) Insufficient food
    3) Insufficient light
    4) presense of a predator (in theory, never try yet)

    Just make them feel uncomfortable for a duration of two weeks after which dry up the culture. (wind/ sun). Whatever leftover is the cryst + dirt.

    What i did was, pour a bit of peat water into the culture tank everyday for a week until all dead. Then dry up the water and wola. That way you can send some cryst to Wright easily too.

    I think this is generally the same for most Daphnia, rotifer and brineshrimp.
    KeeHoe.

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