Swirling Diseases

[Guppo]

Hi guys,

I'm new to killies and had managed to get some Nothos in hand. Unfortunately, since day 1, some of them just wasted away (especially females) after swimming in circular motion. The dead shows no visible sign of disease. The lost was 1 or 2 from a batch on daily basis. The rest seems to be ok.

I've been feeding them with frozen bloodworm so it definitely not due to the food source. All of them were kept in bare tank with seeded sponge filters without plants. Parameter of my tank water also seems to be fine with a pH of about 7.5. I've also added salt to all the tanks.

Could all please throw in your advise on this matter.

Thanks in advance! Your help is greatly appreciated.

[RonWill]

The lost was 1 or 2 from a batch on daily basis. The rest seems to be ok.

Dear 'What's your name' Guppo,
I'm sorry to hear about your notho problem in your first post to the forum, but whether good or bad, please feel free to ask.

From your description, everything looks normal but I'm only guessing that you could be dealing with 'old fish' on the brink of expiry. What about the males and do they exhibit the same behaviour?

When you say 'batch', it appears that you're handling a fair number of these nothos. Are those remaining healthy ones, also smaller or 'younger'?

BTW, are you Chee Fai's friend?

[whuntley]

Hi guys,

I'm new to killies and had managed to get some Nothos in hand. Unfortunately, since day 1, some of them just wasted away (especially females) after swimming in circular motion. The dead shows no visible sign of disease. The lost was 1 or 2 from a batch on daily basis. The rest seems to be ok.

I've been feeding them with frozen bloodworm so it definitely not due to the food source. All of them were kept in bare tank with seeded sponge filters without plants. Parameter of my tank water also seems to be fine with a pH of about 7.5. I've also added salt to all the tanks.

Could all please throw in your advise on this matter.

Thanks in advance! Your help is greatly appreciated.

It's not "Whirling Disease" which affects mostly trout and other cold-water fishes and is caused by an infectious virus. It would quickly get all of them, if they could get it.

Recently-shipped Nothos seem to sometimes go into a wasting mode that I don't think anyone has cured. Most of us have given up on shipping live fish and try to send eggs as the really safe way to move them.

They need good aeration and super-clean water, but they do not do well if there is a lot of current associated with those air bubbles. Also, be extra careful that you don't shock them with big changes of temperature, tds, or electrolyte balance.

Never add salt if your water is very soft. Nothos do better in hard, alkaline water in captivity, even if their native waters differ from that. In that harder water, some added salt gives them good protection from Velvet Disease that they seem to get too much.

BTW, many brands of frozen bloodworms are very toxic, here in the US. I will only use Hikari or SF Bay Brand, as many other popular brands don't do good QC at the packing plant. They often freeze worms that have died in the sun and started to rot. Results can be similar to what you report. I wouldn't discount that possibility.

Since females seem more involved, could the males be injuring them? I like lots of rocks, plants, wood and other structure so the girls can retreat to safe places. Those also help them get out of current if they are bothered by it.

Last, but not least, I try to not keep Nothos in a "batch." A few babies together is OK, but I prefer to divide into pairs as early as possible. They can be pretty rough on each other, sometimes.

Wright

[Guppo]

Thanks Ronwill and Whuntley for your kind advise...

I'm also using the hikari BW. Therefore, I'm quite confident with the quality...
To be exact, they seems to me that all of them are kinda young, barely touching 2.5cm in total length. The aeration is mild and they have got plenty of space to roam about. Aggression is minimum as far as I'm concerned.
My water is rather hard too. As such, I phased out that the loss might due to the addition of salt in soft water.
Really wish to know what's the possible cause(s) so that I can remedy it.
I've currently separated some of the healthy looking ones into pairs or trios to see if its due to aggression. However, one of the female in one of my breeding tanks had again wasted away last night. I've also added adequate a copper salt based anti-velvet med into the tank. They don't seems to be stressed to the med.
Maybe you experts could provide me with all the possible causes so that I can source for an effective remedy.
PS: I've done lots of research before coming into killies but have yet to know that there's this particular mode of death.

[timebomb]

Guppo,

I don't know about "swirling" but I've encountered "shimmying" with Nothos. They swim in a stationary position and weave their heads from side to side.

To cure shimmying, all it takes is a 50% water change.

Loh K L

[CM Media]

Guppo,

Where do you get your Nothos from? I've also had this experience when I import live fishes from overseas through local LFS.

I realised thet the Nothos are all packed in small plastic bags with very little room for the fish to move around. Nothos itsdelf already don't travel well and to make matter worst, they're not packed properly prior to shipping.

I usually do not succeed breeding those Nothos. I suggest if you're keen, get in eggs would be a better solution.

As for conditioning the Nothos, use a 1.5ft tank to house about 3 pairs with a sponge filter like the one shown here. This type of air filter will minimise the current in the tank where the fish will not stress out. Do not have any direct lighting above the tank as they don't do well with high lit tank. Add in some plants like ferns for the Nothos to hide around.




Picture are taken from Mail Order Pet Supplies Inc

[Guppo]

Hi all whom had contributed to my tread,

Currently, the death seems to have put a full stop to it naturally.... I hope... Though I've got lots of casualities, it's not stopping me in killies keeping as this is also a kind of challenge from another view. Its not the money that had been bothering me, its actually the lives that had been lost! That's why I came straight into this forum for advise.

Hope that I've got the chance to share with you guys when I've gone to another advance stage in breeding these tiny jewels.

Thanks for all your efforts and time.