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Thread: Betta simplex "Type II" F2 now in Singapore

  1. #1
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    Betta simplex "Type II" F2 now in Singapore

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    Hi guys,

    Just to let you know that there are a few pairs of the above fish now with Jun. I'm looking for a few good homes for them. Please contact him at [email protected]. Please help me keep them fish going!

  2. #2
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    Re: Betta simplex "Type II" F2 now in Singapore

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonn
    Please help me keep them fish going!
    Nonn, how does the "Type II" differ from the original wild caught? I'm not into bettas now but in order for others to 'keep it going', it might be relevant to know the parameters/conditions when these were kept in your tank... ya?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Nonn,
    I did a forum search and there were some details in your response to the thread "Fish from Bangkok, Thailand".

    May I suggest that only those who're familiar or more experienced hobbyists take up Nonn's offer. It is, afterall, classified as endangered species on IUCN redlist. When the species is stabilized, F3 and subsequent generations can be safely distributed.

    Again, only if you're serious in maintenance, not hybridizing.

    "Let start with B. simplex first, they are from stream that run from Lime-stone moutain in Krabi province. That is why they love alkaline water. I measured their water during rainy season at 7.5, so I figured it might be a little more alkaline in the dry season. That is why, I give you the figure 7.5-8.

    Despite the fact that this species is being catch and exported in good number for many years, there are not much report of success with this species probably because of the common believe that Betta like low pH.

    Having said that, I don't think they are that picky about water quality. As long as you keep them in good condition, I'm sure they will breed. Put in a few pot or large PVC pipe for them to breed in and they will breed. The male will carry eggs and fry in his mouth for about 10-15 days, he will then split out anything from 20-74 fry. 74 is our record high at the moment, let see if anyone can beat this number
    "
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  4. #4
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    The B. simplex Type II was caught by David Armitage, Tony Pinto and Danis Young from probably the very southern most distribution of the species (Maybe Tony P. will correct me on this). They gave me 2 original pairs which I'm now breed to F3 generation.

    The main different between Type II and normal B. simplex is that they tends to have more marking on their finage (like those of B. edithae although not as pronouce). They also get more blue shine scale compare to the normal simplex. Although the different is not enough to be a sub species of whatever in my opinion, I would recommend keeping the strain separately.

    All the fish sent to Singapore come from only one bloodline. I will distribute the second blood line (from the second pair) when I have enought of them. There are much fewer since the original male jumped out of the tank after only his first brood.

    One question, when you have only 2 original pairs, how do you manage the line? Keep the line separate as long as the offspring doesn't show sign of defect, then cross them, or mix them up from the very beginning?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonn

    snip...

    One question, when you have only 2 original pairs, how do you manage the line? Keep the line separate as long as the offspring doesn't show sign of defect, then cross them, or mix them up from the very beginning?
    It depends on what you wish to do. To keep the most of the original 4 sets of genes, mix and match early with different pairs for each brood. If a bad recessive shows up, you can usually figure what lines carried it and eliminate it by future selection of breeders. The earlier you do this, the better for the hobby, IMHO. Keeping lines separate could hide a negative recessive for many generations.

    If the original set shows high variability, and you suspect a hybrid could be involved, line breeding (offspring to parent) and severe selection may be needed. This can, potentially, reduce the unwanted hybrid genes toward zero if done carefully.

    IMHO, this line breeding is needed for most commercial imports of killifish from Nigeria and surrounding region. The exporters are most careless about getting the right females with the right males. I doubt if it is a deliberate attempt to make the strains essentially sterile (though it does in a generation or two). They don't seem smart enough for that kind of clever merchandising. [Most of the folks from there who are above minimal intelligence seem to be occupied in running 419 scams. ]

    Wright
    01 760 872-3995
    805 Valley West Circle
    Bishop, CA 93514 USA

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    Okay, fellas,

    I'm in possession of 2 pairs of Betta simplex which came from Nonn. The last time I distributed this fish to 2 hobbyists in this forum, one pair died after a few days and there were no news from the guy who took the other pair. So I'm going to be a bit more fussy about who I give the fish to now.

    If you like to have a pair, submit your application form in triplicate with full details on stuff like how long have you been keeping fish, what sort of tank you're going to keep the fish in, what are you going to do when the fish breed, so on and so forth. Please enclose supporting documents like birth and marriage certificates, driving licences, educational certificates and passport size photographs.

    Okay, jokes aside, if you want them, tell me more about yourself first. If I think you're not qualified to keep the simplex, I will ignore your application. Better that than I tell you to your face that you're not good enough Enquiries sent through private email or message will not be entertained. If you want the fish, ask for them in this thread or don't ask at all.

    I'm also in possession of 16 T-shirts. They are in M and L sizes. These T shirts will be at Eco-Culture tomorrow afternoon. Each is Sing $6. Neither Eco-Culture nor I are making any money out of this. It's all in support of Nonn's web site, www.siamensis.org. Those of you who have been bugging Nonn for exotic Bettas or have taken some from him should rush down to Eco and buy as many T shirts as you can, if you ask me . It's the least you should do for someone who have done a lot for the hobby.

    Here's a pic of the T shirt:


    Loh K L

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    Very nice T-shirt but too bad Eco-Culture is too far from where I am staying...
    Lily Choo

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    Quote Originally Posted by timebomb
    Enquiries sent through private email or message will not be entertained. If you want the fish, ask for them in this thread or don't ask at all.
    Ah... if only I lived in Singapore, I would be the first person to request one =). Do you have any pictures of these beauties yet?
    -Mark Mendoza

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    Quote Originally Posted by timebomb
    If you want the fish, ask for them in this thread or don't ask at all
    Kwek Leong, I'm quite confident I can but I won't ask. Instead, please put aside 2 L-size T's for me... I'll wear one to sleep :wink:
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Loh,

    The first 2 pairs, I gave to you were wild-caught. They are very difficult to keep. The fish I distributed this time were born in my fish room. They are very strong and robust. Average aquarist with determination shouldn't have problem keeping them at all. They will eat flake food as well. I use Tetra's and Ocean Nutritional.

    Thank you for taking up the t-shirt thingy for me. Guys, proceeds from the t-shirts will be paying for the siamensis.org website. Just to keep it going. If we happen to sell more enough we might be able to buy the swamp -in the industrialized area- where Betta sp. Mahachai are found. The last time I check it cost around $ Singapore 20,000,000 No kidding!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonn
    The last time I check it cost around $ Singapore 20,000,000 No kidding!
    That S$2million? How big is the area.
    I really salute you. It nice to know that there are people who are so focus in betta. Keep up the good work.

    Cheer.
    Best Regards, TS
    PlantLog Garden Cryptocoryne, Bucephalandra .....

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    Choy,

    Have you taken any pictures of the fish?

    Cheers,

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTree
    Choy,

    Have you taken any pictures of the fish?

    Cheers,
    nope, haven't been takings pics of any more betta nor paros recently. don't have the space to house them till their colours show up. although I did drool at that fish in eco.

    however I have TWO siamensis t-shirts eat your heart out.
    why I don't do garden hybrids and aquarium strains: natural species is a history of Nature, while hybrids are just the whims of Man.
    hexazona · crumenatum · Galleria Botanica

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwchoy
    however I have TWO siamensis t-shirts eat your heart out.
    Just bought 1 pc! Wearing to Thailand to look for fish!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonn
    The B. simplex Type II was caught by David Armitage, Tony Pinto and Danis Young from probably the very southern most distribution of the species (Maybe Tony P. will correct me on this). They gave me 2 original pairs which I'm now breed to F3 generation.
    Hi Nonn,
    I received a pair of B. simplex from Kwek Leong on last Saturday and they're in a tank of their own, with a few Corydoras habrosus as tankmates.

    They're pretty shy and probably adapting to new surroundings but I trust you like the home I have for them? (The 'Pin-Tail' guppies were relocated to the low-cube DW tank)


    Jian Yang took the following pics while I got my fingers wet in the 3rd Walstad-styled tank.


    As these are the only Betta species I'm maintaining, please don't worry about line contamination. I'll give them the best possible care and will update as needed.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    Sure look much better than bare bottom tank they grown up in, Lonnie

    Choy, Mr.Tree, thank you for helping me out with the t-shirts. Looking forward to see you in the swamp of Mahachai.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonn
    Sure look much better than bare bottom tank they grown up in, Lonnie
    urm... this is great. All I took was a pair of betta and you call me "Lonnie". If you sent several species, good gosh!, I'll end up "Loonie"!

    Jokes aside, any breeding tips?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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    I think the simplex pair in Eco Culture's tank is brooding eggs! Nice!!

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    Ha Loonie! your name was in different page y'know :P

    Feed them well, add some salt in the water, give them more aeretion to stimulate them to breed, oh provide them some cave too.

  20. #20
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    Nonn, I must need new glasses since I can't find 'Loonie' in the previous page of the thread... oh well, it happens as one 'matures' :wink:

    What I find curious is the need for caves. I haven't been reading up on the simplex as much as I should but don't remember them being cave-dwellers or cave-spawners. If it's to serve as a refuge for the female, shouldn't the plants be enough? As is, I'm having a tough time finding the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonn
    Feed them well, add some salt in the water, give them more aeretion to stimulate them to breed, oh provide them some cave too.
    I have only 'Red Sea' marine salt and added a teaspoon of that this morning, together with a quartered-calcium tablet (for my ramhorn snails). The tank has a UGF running with twin uplift tubes, so aeration should be sufficient.

    Perhaps they're homesick but their appetite isn't half of the gardneris'. They ignored the tubifex but picked on some BBS. Hopefully, their appetite will improve over the week.

    PS: I got a M-size T for my son and he thinks that the siamensis artwork looks 'kewl man'.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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