Un-ID'ed Najas and Aponogeton species

[Slaigar]

It may just be using the nutrients from the tuber if no fertilization is being added. In order to keep it from "burning out", a good base fertilizer would help. My A. masgascariensis did the same thing. It grew about 15 leaves that were about a foot long over the course of a few weeks. From neglect I did not fertilize it and eventually the tuber was exhausted.

[hobbit6003]

Ron,

I wonder if this is of any help in the ID of the aponogeton sp. that we bought, but here goes:

Mine have sprouted leaves that is reddish-brown in colour, and perhaps due to the root monsters, grew more than half a ft tall. THe original ones that we got have smaller and greener leaves. THe reddish brown leaves would turned abit olive green eventually

Also, the leaves have patches of darker colour in them, running horizontally from the the central stem out. The pattern somtimes resemble a bar code or something similar.

Sorry, got no DC to shoot a good pic on these.

Cheers,

Kenny

[stormhawk]

The growth spurt is due to the water movement through the gravel bed caused by the UGF. I have had nanas, Echi. bleheri and some other odd plants grow very well when I used a UGF without any base fert or CO2. Some plants like a slight current passing through their roots. Thats the reason why some people use heating cables at the base of the tank to allow the warm water to rise up thus allowing water to flow through the roots. An alternative to this is to have layer of gravel at just about 5cm. Enough for the roots to go into. I have had success with cryptocorynes when planted in shallow gravel beds with some base fert beneath. Got a "dwarfed" wendtii growing in a small plastic container with just peat moss at the bottom as a "fert". Works real well and the plant isn't dying. So that's my evidence

[ruyle]

Hi guys,
Curious to know if this is reverse flow UGF or standard UGF. Also how deep
are you making this gravel only substrate, 3-4"?

Regards,

Bill
farang9

[stormhawk]

I think Ron uses standard UGFs. I used a standard UGF powered by a powerhead back then and all my plants did well. My gravel bed was quite thick at about 4-5 inches back then. I don't know how thick Ron's gravel bed is though.

[RonWill]

Bill, mine are modular snap-in plates with twin airlifts and about 2" sloping up to 3" thickness in some area using Lapis 'LoneStar' gravel.

Would have preferred average substrate to be 4" but since I have 4 tanks sitting on a Metro 'Erecta' castored steel rack (tanks' shortside at front), the reduced gravel depth is just sufficient to keep the plants down. Water volume is also lowered lest the castors give way.

Water circulation may have contributed to the Aponogeton's growth spurt (now 14inches) but I wish the C. natans, which is just next to it, did equally well.

[Slaigar]

I thought the point of substrate heating was for balance rather than growth boosts. The convection current is too slow to actually give a flow to the roots. A complete overturn may take weeks! It provides stability by making sure the substrate does not exhaust itself by a convection current that continually brings nutrients from the water column into the substrate.

A good article on them is:
http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/A..._Substrate.htm
I read quite a bit about them when setting up my nano tank. But then I learned my lights were able to warm up the tank up to 28 degrees Celsius!

Personally, I would not use UGFs with plants just because the possibility of dead spots appearing if the UGF plate gets clogged with roots. Enough substrate may help stop it. Also, the bubbling sounds were annoying, hehe.

Ron,
Is your C. natans producing submersed leaves? It is supposed to be primarily a floating plant but mine (got to revive it now) was submersed before quite a long while. It was also very prolific that little plantlets kept growing on the tuber itself. I thought I killed it months back but the tuber has not fully rotted on me(bad and careless management on my part). It had nice bushy leaves, I hope it stays submersed in the new tank it is in.

[RonWill]

Personally, I would not use UGFs with plants just because the possibility of dead spots appearing if the UGF plate gets clogged with roots. Enough substrate may help stop it

Mark, not that long ago, the most affordable and commonly available form of filtration was either UGFs or the floss-filled corner box filters. UGF was my choice of filtration as it allows me to grow plants pretty well and I liked the way they swayed with the bubbled currents. Dead spots was not obvious to me then as it is now.

Also, the bubbling sounds were annoying, hehe.

When I was living with my dad, I had more than 20 tanks in my bedroom, with nothing more than a bed and wardrobe. The bubbling was therapeutic to me but it drove my girlfriend nuts (which probably explains why she isn't my present wife! ) Nowadays, I can almost swear that my insomia is due to excessive 'silence'.

Anyway... the leaves in the pictured C. natans are submersed foliage and in the same state as when I bought them. I'll let you know when it gets bushy.

[stormhawk]

Ron, maybe I should ask your Mrs whether bubbling affects her or not the next time I drop by.

Dead spots can be reduced by certain methods. Using a powerhead, force the water through the gravel bed by reverse UGF method. You should see a swirl of debris in the water. While doing so start up the siphon and most of the muck should be removed. Good way to flush "out" the debris.

[Slaigar]

Woops! When I said C. natans, I was referring to Aponogeton natans! That is a bigger mistake than I usually make, hehe (especially since I mentioned I never kept Crinum natans before!). I guess the submersed/floating leaves question does not apply.

Now that I am actually paying attention to what is happening, here are photos of an adult C. natans at RVA:
http://www.rva.jp/gallery/htm_plants...ns_crispus.htm
And at Rehoboth Aquatics
http://www.rehobothaquatics.com/view48.htm (C. aquatica)
http://www.rehobothaquatics.com/view49.htm (C. natans)
They look to similar to me.
The plant can get huge! So get some space and atleast a 4" of substrate underneath that bulb!


All my tanks are in my bedroom so I have to deal with the sounds- be it a clogged filter or a bubbling UGF. I now switched to powerfilters so I get that soothing trickling of water sound, hehe.

[Green Baron]

Water circulation may have contributed to the Aponogeton's growth spurt (now 14inches) but I wish the C. natans, which is just next to it, did equally well.

Ronnie,
So you do have filtration in this tank? I thought this is a low-maintenance no filtration tank ?

[Slaigar]

So you do have filtration in this tank? I thought this is a low-maintenance no filtration tank ?

Hehe, I tried that one before. I can tell you that a clay substrate(bottom layer) with no filtration means a messy tank! I now keep atleast mechanical filtration and a source of flow.

Water flow can boost plant growth. I will write more about that later, now I got to head off!

[Slaigar]

Water flow can boost plant growth. I will write more about that later, now I got to head off!

Almost forgot to go back to this one! Increasing water flow is more of a situation of increasing oxygen. A plants metabolism is proportional to the oyxgen content in the water. In aquariums, the quantity of fish is not high enough to create a proper movement in the water. Wind blowing over a pond will have more circulation than a stagnant aquarium.

[RonWill]

Mark, here's where I beg to differ. The 3 DW-styled tanks are doing real fine without aeration or filtration, and how the plants manage to cope is something that baffles me.

A case in point. I've never had much luck with Aponogeton madagascariensis, either killing them in the process or getting very stunted growth. In the low cube tank, even with only ambient lighting, the lace plant has put on a bit more foilage and a healthy green.

The Blyxa aubertii, said to be a high-light plant, is also a fresh green. Whether this points to the aquatic compost being base fert instead of plain gravel, I can't tell for sure.

What I do know is that an experiment with garden top soil for base was uncontrollable and for lack of a better word, messy. [a wrong choice of bottom layer perhaps?]