Colour of clown Killie

[GaspingGurami]

hello to all,

I am a total newcomer to killies, and before I embark on trying to keep this kind of fish, I thought I would do some reading on the topic first. I say your website is absolutely great, and it's good also to see a few familiar names from AQ in here.

Now my question. I've seen some LFS selling clown killies, but they seem to be pale in colour compared to those pictures I see in this site. Are the fish pale because of tank conditions and the colour would come back to them when conditions are right? Or are those fish I see a totally different fish (the LFS in question called it Rocket fish) and is not a clown killie.

If it is pale due to water conditions, can you be kind to point me in the direction where I may find what these conditions are and determine whether I can meet those requirements in my tank?

Thanks in advance for your answers.

[timebomb]

Hi, Lawrence,

Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you took some time to read the old posts before asking your questions.

Ronnie's the expert on Clown Killies (latin name: Epiplatys annulatus) and I'm sure he will give you a more detailed answer to your question later. But for the moment, you can take a look at this topic to find out why they have different colours.

Loh K L

[stormhawk]

Hello Lawrence, welcome to the forum. For starters, their current scientific name is Pseudepiplatys annulatus but we usually refer to it as ANN. Clown Killies kept in wrong conditions at the shop can result in pale colouration, especially amongst males. Kept in a slightly planted and shaded tank the males will show their colours very nicely. Live foods and the occasional floating flake food will be eagerly eaten by these surface-hugging fellas. The rocket killie name should be the one used for the clown killie in the trade. Its quite easy to differentiate between this species and the other common lampeye killies available in the trade.

Clowns have a banded body pattern in comparison to the silvery-grey colouration of the lampeyes. For more information regarding spawning and raising them, that you must wait for Ronnie's answer. He's the person to see if its regarding the clown killies. :wink:

[RonWill]

Hi Lawrence,
Most fishes at the LFS are usually stressed by the net constantly dipping into their tanks and when water condition is not favorable, the simple beauty of Pseudepiplatys annulatus will not be what you see in the gallery. ANNs are also commonly known as 'Clown Killie' or 'Rocket Killie'.

These are not gegarious and prefer peaceful tankmates, with slightly acidic water and normal light levels. Almost all my killies are fed a varied diet of live foods and are too spoilt to take flakes.

Finally, welcome to the forum and we hope you'll enjoy the visits.

[GaspingGurami]

Thanks to all for your replies, and your warm welcomes.

I am preparing a 3L shrimp tank, and was thinking of having a few small surface fish of like sizes to the shrimps. That's when the ANN in Benny's avatar in another forum piqued my interest in the ANN, and now methinks 2 pairs will be perfect for the tank.

This tank that I am cycling now, has lapis gravel, a piece of driftwood tied with "mini moss" and 2 pebbles tied with the same. It currently has a pH of 6.8, 0.1 ppm Nitrite and and 1ppm of NH4. Water is stained yellow from ketapang in an attempt to keep pH low so that the ammonium does not convert to ammonia. Lighting is 9w for 10 hours a day.

The cycling is taking a while longer probably because I don't have an air pump running inside, I didn't put in live plants for longer than 2 days, and the moss is really slow in growing. The Salvinia on the surface is doing well though. I had a small black molly for cycling dutes and last night when Nitrite went down to 0.1ppm, I put in a small Malayan shrimp to test the waters.

I figure if the water is good enough to support shrimps, it will be good enough to add ANNs gradually.

Meanwhile, I do hope the batch at the LFS lasts long enough till I get some for myself.

[GaspingGurami]

Went to my LFS yesterday to visit the ANNs and found the tank of 100s are reduced to just 9 pieces. I quickly bought up the remainder and put them with my neon Tetras in a heavily planted tank.

This morning, I peeled 2 off the floor, picked out 1 carcass and have 1 MIA

Till now (24 hours after introduction), the black and cream bands on the body are still very faint, and all the fins are transparent. I am hoping that the colours will come back soon. They are however starting to feed on red floating pellets.

[stormhawk]

Hi Lawrence, sorry to hear about the "crispies" and losses. A plastic cover can easily prevent such "kamikaze" killies that are prone to jump when disturbed. If such a cover is too unsightly for your tank then the other good alternative would be to provide floating plants as cover. It helps to lessen their propensity for jumping.

What other fishes do you have in the tank? It has been mentioned that hatchetfish have been triggered to jump when a Corydoras catfish surfaces for its gulp of air. This may apply to surface-dwelling killifish like the ANN as well. Look out for possible bullies and remove or isolate these buggers if possible.

Give them some time to regain the colours. If the conditions are to their liking, they will develop their fine colours in due time. Its good news to hear that they're feeding on floating pellets though. :wink:

[RonWill]

I am preparing a 3L shrimp tank, and was thinking of having a few small surface fish of like sizes to the shrimps. That's when the ANN in Benny's avatar in another forum piqued my interest in the ANN, and now methinks 2 pairs will be perfect for the tank.

Lawrence, I hope it's a typo I'm reading... you did say the ANNs are going into a 3L (three litre) tank? That's not much of a tank for 2 pairs, plus shrimps.

Later, you said, "found the tank of 100s are reduced to just 9 pieces. I quickly bought up the remainder and put them with my neon Tetras in a heavily planted tank". This 'planted tank' isn't 3L too, is it?

Although ANNs aren't gegarious or bullies, they need their own space to maintain harmony. Great companions would be pygmy species of corydoras and P. gertrudae. Neons are competitive feeders and can leave ANNs hungry.... and they must be, that they accept pellets [maybe I should starve mine too :wink: ]

With the remaining 5, have patience. You didn't say how large/small they are but if they're around 1cm, the bandings should already be contrasty.

I should have mentioned earlier to cover that tank, especially for skittish surface fishes that's new to the surroundings. Mine don't jump anymore because they're used to my big, fat face and my ANN grow-out tray isn't covered either... the fry just dart into the frogbits, najas and salvinia whenever they see a shadow overhead.

[GaspingGurami]

Hi Ronnie,

Lawrence, I hope it's a typo I'm reading... you did say the ANNs are going into a 3L (three litre) tank? That's not much of a tank for 2 pairs, plus shrimps..

It is indeed a 3litre tank. In it I have 4 cherry shrimps, 2 Malayan shrimps and I hoped to put in 4 ANNs. I thought these fish stay small, swim near the surface and are peaceful; and that is why I thought of having them with the shrimps. I used to have a small Lyretail molly to do the cycling. Although it stays at the surface, it's size and antics are a bit too much a contrast to the shrimps for my liking and so I thought the ANNs were perfect.

I have planted clumps of "mini moss" and and floating on the surface I have Salvinia and Ceratopteris thalictroides to take up excess ammonium.

Do these fish need so much space? I still have the ANNs in my main tank as I have just stripped their new home to fit in a UGF. Lack of water movement is causing the gravel to stink. I'll probably put 2 into the tank once it is ready and then play by ear. The rest can stay in my main tank, but then, I can hardly spot them when they hide behind all those vegetation.

Later, you said, "found the tank of 100s are reduced to just 9 pieces. I quickly bought up the remainder and put them with my neon Tetras in a heavily planted tank". This 'planted tank' isn't 3L too, is it?

I meant to say that the LFS had hundreds in their tank a week or so past. All so quickly, the stock was reduced to 9 pieces of which 2 were really sickly. I felt bad for the LFS owner to buy just 4 and leave the small number behind, so I just bought up everything, including the sick, and temporarily housed them into my planted tank which is 30Litres.

Neons are competitive feeders and can leave ANNs hungry.... and they must be, that they accept pellets [maybe I should starve mine too :wink: ].

Actually, the LFS was already feeding them with crushed pellets, so mine must have been pellet trained.

With the remaining 5, have patience. You didn't say how large/small they are but if they're around 1cm, the bandings should already be contrasty..

From nose to tip of tail, they are slightly more than 1cm. Yes, the bandings are clearer today, and I detect colour faintly coming on in the fins.

I should have mentioned earlier to cover that tank, especially for skittish surface fishes that's new to the surroundings. .

Covering the tank is a problem for me as the heat generated from the lamps will be a lot if a cover blocks the exit of air. I've increased the surface plants after the last jumping and now they are all huddled comfortably under the Slavinia-Riccia cover. Some are slowly venturing to explore the bottom of the tank. I hope that ends their jumping.

[GaspingGurami]

Here is an update of my 3Litre tank.

After 2 days of introducing cherry shrimps, and seeing that there was no casualty, I took it that the water is stably cycled and my nitrite kit might be inaccurate. I then scooped 2 ANNs from my main tank to place into their new home.

As I'm unsure about telling the sexs of ANNs, I took a slightly bigger and rounder one and the other is smaller and flatter.

Now after 2 days in its new home, both have moved down to spend more time at the bottom. In fact, the bigger seemed to have made a stone it's own "cave" and spends most of its time in it.

The 2 don't seem to be pairing. Perhaps I got both of the same sex? The bigger is seen displaying often to the smaller, but there was absolutely no interest generated from the other party.

The banding of the bigger have become contrasty, while the smaller is still faded most of the time except during dinner. The cream bands on the bigger have in fact become yellow, which is really nice. I'm hoping there will be more colour in the tail and fins which is currently transparent with some black streaks.

Is there any way to tell between the sexes? The tiny size of these fishes make seeing anything really difficult.

[RonWill]

Lawrence,
For now, just concentrate in raising the young ANNs with decent food. By decent, I refer to live ones but it's understandable that not everyone share the same preferences. Even if their diet is prepared foods, variety is never bad.

As described in previous threads, what color you'll see in the ANNs depends on the strain. Most of those available locally has clear fins with the usual bands in the caudal.

Is there any way to tell between the sexes? The tiny size of these fishes make seeing anything really difficult.

Yes, there is but that's not your priority now.

[GaspingGurami]

Lawrence,
For now, just concentrate in raising the young ANNs with decent food. By decent, I refer to live ones but it's understandable that not everyone share the same preferences. Even if their diet is prepared foods, variety is never bad.

Thanks for the advise. They're getting crushed pellets, frozen daphnia, and live tubifex where the daphnia and tubifex is given once a week, and crushed pellets is served for the other days between.

[stormydax]

Hi,
I would like to enquire if clown kilies can take high temperature. As my Jebo light is placed right on top of the tank, i am wondering if the clown killies will be ale to take the direct heat as they like to stay on the surface...

thanks

yours sincerely,
Storm

[whuntley]

Ps. annulatus are a coastal species, from near the equator, so should tolerate fairly warm conditions. My copy of Radda and Purzl, that I find is pretty accurate, says they like a temperature between 25 and 30C.

As a coastal species, they may like a bit of salt added to their water, unlike the highland species of interior Cameroon and Gabon. I never did it, but I bred them in pretty hard water.

Wright

[whuntley]

Oh, BTW, I had no trouble with them, once I learned to never disturb an egg. The parents do not eat viable eggs or young, but handling seems to be a big no-no.

One other BTW, they do not stay near the surface when happy and well oxygenated. They tend to be surface feeders, but would visit all parts of the 10G tank I used for breeding them. I also used fibrous peat or shredded redwood as a substrate and they liked to spawn in it. Roots of water sprite may have been used, too, but I never actually spotted an egg, there.

Wright

PS. Pull babies as soon as vertical stripes show. They will eat the smaller siblings. Ron's plastic spoons are good tools for that. Baby medicine droppers are good, too. A flashlight shining down on them will make the tiny headlight show brightly, making them easy to find.

[Michsoon]

Hi all,

Just sharing my clown killis that I got from Ron a few months back.



Got about 30 frys from the two pairs so they are doing fine up here in Klang, Selangor Malaysia

Regards,
Michael Soon

[Image link edited: 050511 - Ron]

[stormhawk]

Hi Michael, your IMG url wasn't the correct one so I amended your post. Nice fish you got there.

[Michsoon]

Thanks,

First timer. :P

Regards,
Michael

[zmzfam]

Michael,

great that you are able to update us on the fishes that you got. Hopefully, you can breed lots of them and try other species as well.

[Michsoon]

Hi Zulkifli,

Trying to get my Ap. australe , Ap.bitaeniatum and Fundulopanchax gardneri to spawn, planted tank method didn't work for me. Switching to spawing mops.

Will certainly post once I get some decent results. Hoping to get enough people interested over here to get a small group of killi hobbist going in KL.

Thanks for the support guys.

Warmest regards,
Michael