Huntley Hood--wet/dry filter, TE heater/chiller, plant light

[whuntley]

Hi all,

I am dreaming of an ultimate system for a killifish/planted tank. I'd like to design such a thing, but hope you can offer ways to overcome some serious perceived problems.

I like the Eclipse systems, so a really attractive hood that fits our standard US 10G tanks is where I start. The tank has a 10.5X20" footprint and is 12" tall. Full plastic upper and lower rims prevent bumping accidents, and a lip inside the top rim holds hood and/or cover glass to discourage killies from going wandering.

Does SG have anything like this? Here the 10G bare tanks retail for less than US$10.

Unfortunately, I can't yet figure how to make the hood to retail for less than $100 (our's, not your's).

My concept is to get the heat away so a 50W +/- TEC device can both chill or heat the tank if a silent-enough fan can be found. The filter would be a blatant rip-off of Henri DeBruyn's concept, with either a sponge pre-filter or an in-hood blue-pad before a bed of red lava. The light would be a 13W AH-Supply-type CF with ballast well away from the tank.

That light level will support most plants in a 10G and still not require CO2 injection. Two 13W brite-lite kits would require the added CO2 but might cause lots of algae and nutrient problems, not to mention double heat.

Problems abound, so I'm open to suggestions. [I'm also narrow minded enough to ignore or ridicule many of them. ]

Should the filter be air driven or power-head? Is a black hood with rounded corners (ala Eclipse) the most pleasing design? Would you buy such a device if it was at your LFS? More than 1? What if it was <US$50?

I tried this posting earlier, but lost it when I could not get the poll function to work. Bill (Farang9) talked me into trying it again. Hope you have good suggestions before I waste money trying to do it.

Wright

[ruyle]

Wright,
I would definitely go with a rounded design a la 12g Nano Cube and the
Elipse hoods. I find your idea very intriguing! Yep, Walmart 10g tanks,
barebones, are still <$10. If you could manufacture something that fits (works-in-a-drawer) that costs say $49.95, I think it would sell. If it
costs $100, people will just say "bye" and buy the nano cube The
thermonuclear device you mentioned, will you be able to get this licensed?

I would do an internal pump-driven de Bruyn, cuz silence is golden except
for the sound of raindrops

[timebomb]

I don't think we can help you much, Wright. Most of us here keep open-top tanks. Hooded tanks are generally not in favour as they can get very warm with our temperatures. Some planted tank hobbyists use Juwel tanks which comes with hoods and have internal filters but they are not popular.

Loh K L

[Piscesgirl]

Wright, a ten gallon is the easiest! Get a normal incandenscent top, like the All-Glass economy hood, #MA-930208 at DrsFosterSmith.com for $14.49, then get two Wal*mart 10 Watt screw in compact fluorescents (I hope there are walmarts there). It is a special bulb, not spiral, and is less than $5.00 each. I LOVE those bulbs. I use them in hoods, in desk lamps, etc. They are 6500K. In a blue box. I can try to attach a picture later.

[Piscesgirl]

Here we go..the wonderful bulb!

[whuntley]

Wright, a ten gallon is the easiest! Get a normal incandenscent top, like the All-Glass economy hood, #MA-930208 at DrsFosterSmith.com for $14.49, then get two Wal*mart 10 Watt screw in compact fluorescents (I hope there are walmarts there). It is a special bulb, not spiral, and is less than $5.00 each. I LOVE those bulbs. I use them in hoods, in desk lamps, etc. They are 6500K. In a blue box. I can try to attach a picture later.

Deborah,

Those hoods, as I recall are fairly ugly, but they have no decent reflectors which throws away a lot of light and concentrates heat of lamp and ballast right in the hood. I used to use a lot of them, but I either lined the hood with potato-chip-bag plastic reflector or 3M Silverlux, or too much of the light was lost. Two lamps over a 10G would cook the fish, but be barely adequate light for plants.

If the ballast is removed to a remote location and the thermoelectric cooler is integrated, this design should work in warm climates. Wet-drys don't do much cooling where the humidity is high, so a TE chiller/heater as an integrated device would seem desirable.

Having created a few crispy critters, myself, I do not believe that open-top tanks are a good idea for many killifish species. Likewise, I have had small wild Bettas jump through a 1/4" airline hole! Their accuracy and wriggle ability is uncanny!

[In an aside, a good friend, Sue Bunte, was over to visit my fishroom. On the way she stopped by an oriental market and bought a small supply of those little dried silvery fish. It was weeks before I had found all the ones she dropped on my shelves and floor! ]

Air-pump noise is no problem, Bill, as there are dead silent pumps readily available. Check out JEHMCO for quiet linear-piston pumps. The fan to rapidly move air over the lamp, wet bed, and hot junction of the chiller is a bigger noise problem, IME. I think it is a pretty vital part of the design and not simple if profile needs to be low.

The founders of Apple Computer were fanatical about fan noise, and they nearly sank the company by refusing to allow any fan in the early Apples and Macs. They were still young enough that they had not destroyed their hearing with loud rock music, Nevertheless, they funded heavy-duty research into how to do a silent fan. I followed a lot of that work, as well as work just across Bayshore Highway into the silent surveillance aircraft at Lockheed. Jobs and Wosniak later did allow fans, but they were a lot less noisy than in many PCs (and their hearing may have "matured").

I think some of the silent-fan technology may finally be sneaking into the processor-cooling business, but I need to explore further.

Wright

[Piscesgirl]

I don't find heat to be a problem, I touch the hood right above the bulbs and it is merely warm. I don't find the hoods unattractive either, but of course everyone has their own opinions of what looks good and doesn't. In terms of light, you wouldn't want any more that those 2 bulbs or CO2 would be necessary, even without reflectors (I'm using DIY Co2 in there).

Here's a few pictures of my ten:






It's supposed to be my hospital tank/Quarantine tank, but I keep throwing clippings in there and so haven't broken it down yet.

[ruyle]

Deborah, I think the hood looks good, too! Wright is just being a bully
I tried to enlarge your photo of the tank, but no way. Don't be afraid to
reach in there and slap up a photo us oldtimers can see!

You certainly have a wet green thumb! :wink:

[Piscesgirl]

Sorry Bill I thought I needed to keep file sizes small to upload on here. I'll upload a bigger one on photobucket tomorrow and link! (I'm going to bed in a bit -- not feeling well)

I think it looks nice and neat, which is another reason why I haven't broken it down yet. Can't get a whole lot cheaper than that, either.

10 gallon tank = > $10.00
hood = $14.00 and change
Bulbs = > $5.00 each (x 2 bulbs)
Co2 bubble/diffuser Hagen ladder = @ $10.00
Mini Aquaclear filter = @ $13.00

[Piscesgirl]

Ok, here are some larger pictures. I had a little problem with the sunlight coming in and causing reflections, but here they are anyway:


[img][650:550]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Piscesgirl/10gallon.jpg[/img]



It's a bit of a jungle in there as they are clippings I just throw in the tank.

[ruyle]

Deborah, nice tank! What besides pebbles/gravel are you using for
substrate? Looks like the Walmartian bulbs are up to task for growing plants

Also what is the val or sag-looking plant?

[Piscesgirl]

Thanks Bill

There are corkscrew vals and a crypt retrospiralis is floating that I threw in there the other day, but I think you might be wondering about the ones in front -- those are E.Tennellus.

The gravel is a mish-mash of stuff I just threw in -- some Eco Complete, some black epoxy coated gravel, a little natural colored gravel, a little Onyx Sand, just stuff I had on hand

Yep, those bulbs are great - 6500K And, with a desklamp, they can light up small tanks. I've used them for a 2 gallon hex; in fact, I have one in a desk lamp on one side of my 20 gallon long to help light it. Really a lot of bang for you buck, or so I think anyway.

[whuntley]

Deborah,

Your hood is far more attractive than I thought. Unfortunately, to make a "Huntley Kludge" for truly-warm-weather areas, I'd need the full height all the way across the tank. It has the nicely-rounded contours that I find pleasing.

If cost was no object, I'd go for a nice warm cherrywood, oiled and hand rubbed. :-) I'm actually thinking of a custom plastic hood design, with some stiff up-front tooling costs, but reasonably low unit price (<$5). Colors and textures TBD as part of the esthetic design process..

I'm trying to squeeze a chiller-heater with fan, a wet-dry filter, and a single PC 13W lamp and reflector all into that hood. I think a single-height profile might look better, too. No? Maybe a drop in the front 2", like yours, for the feeding/maintenance hinged lid?

I do not count on any really serious cooling from the wet-dry in humid climates, so the chiller is probably essential. If it happens, OK, but this is a dream killifish tank, and if A. jorgenscheeli or Diapterons refuse to breed in it in Puerto Rico, Honolulu, or Singapore, then it will not be what I am after. Even in FL, I would hesitate to try them without serious cooling.

Where I live (high desert) the temperature swings are pretty large. For example, the predicted swing for tonight and tomorrow is from 4C to 29C.

As you can see, I'm using energy to both heat and cool the house, this time of year. It is way cheaper to wear a sweater and gradually peel off clothes (curtains closed, of course ) while doing the heating and cooling in the tanks.

Eventually, I would look for a manufacturer in China o/e, but would need to pin down a few really good patentable ideas before revealing all to such a firm. I have those ideas now, but revealing them is not essential to getting all your inputs on the basic concepts.

BTW. I noticed a bunch of cheap coolers using TE devices on e-bay. You need to search for variations like "thermoelectric," "thermo electric" and even bad spelling to find them all. Most would be a shipping problem to SG, but many would be as efficient as the original freezer, I suspect, for smaller tanks.

Wright

[ruyle]

Wright,
When you first mentioned this idea, I thought these tanks would be stand-
alones, not something that would be in a rack system that could connect
to a rack air supply. If you're going to use Ferrari's design team to prototype the hood
you will want to show off this jewel (not juwel) in an appropriate setting: like on a nifty
endtable sitting by a circa 1960's Eames lounge chair and ottoman in original rosewood :wink:
Using a small electric submersible pump would allow it to be a "plug-and-play"
anywhere in the house.

My 2c,

[whuntley]

Correct, Bill.

Where would one use a 6G Eclipse or the Eclipse hood for a 10G? Most folks want an attractive piece of furniture, and that's where I would start.

If we were just doing fishroom hoods, I'd think seriously of a more open (on top) design that fits 5G tanks. That can wait.

I'm cheating by starting with a 10G tank, as I have 42 of those and only 11 5s.

My current desire for the fishroom racks is about 16" between shelf levels, with a lower row of 10s with polycarbonate covers (cut from fluorescent lamp covers). a higher row of 5s with the same covers, and two covered 20G longs on top with incoming water being conditioned (heated or chilled) feeding the 11 5G tanks and (end on) about 14 or 15 10s. The spacing should allow about 4 T-8 40W lamps in Silverlux-lined reflectors. That would be too little light for many plants, but the opposite, west-facing wall is all windows from about 3' to the ceiling. Lots of winter light in the afternoon, but well shaded all summer.

I have lots of sponge filters, thanks to you and my donor in Lancaster, so they will be in all the tanks for now, with Java Moss and Aponogetons the main plants until I get more going. I have a few old Supra4 air pumps that are a bit worn, hence too noisy for in the house. Should be OK until I can afford a linear system from JEHMCO.

Water will trickle constantly into all tanks, using drip-irrigation valves. Each tank will have a double-J-tube overflow, as I don't like to weaken them with drilled holes for the overflow. My water is unmetered and "free" so heat or chilling energy will be the main cost. The outflow can go to the garden, via my green-water tubs.

I blew almost $20 on a bag of Profile APS and will use it and a wee bit of boiled peat under the gorgeous San Simeon gravel from Howard that is rich oranges and browns with moonstones and jade mixed in. It will be enough to do a few as planted tanks, plus one regular 20G I may keep in the house and do as a planted tank.

'nuf on this side issue. We now take you back to your regularly scheduled thread...

Wright

[elmike]

Where would one use a 6G Eclipse or the Eclipse hood for a 10G? Most folks want an attractive piece of furniture, and that's where I would start.

You're on the right track, Wright. I don't know about the rest of you, but when it comes to aquarium design, esthetics is as important to me as functionality. Which was why I got the Juwel brand tank when I could have gotten the hoodless tank for less than half the price but which won't look good sitting in my living room (with the lamps sticking out and causing glare).

Aquarium should blend in harmony with the interior decor. It is to me a nice piece of functional, not to mention "living" furniture. In my case, I even waited for one whole year for Juwel to come up with the peach cabinet before I ordered it (I'd originally planned to get the 400 litres, which was the last size to come in that colour).

[FC]

Hi Wright,

You can keep the heat out (from the lamp) if you can design your multi-purpose hood that is fully covered (opposite to open concept). I believe that is what you wish to have too as it will look un-cluttered and more furniture-friendly.

The design should facilitate channeling of heat away from the lamp in an efficient way. Below is one possible solution, in the fully enclosed hood:
1) Place the 13 watts lamp near the tank’s back (about 1/3 the tank’s width)
- suggestion: purchase the long, twin tube type 13 watts lamp.
- use reflector if possible.
- This location has several advantages. The main ones being the water’s floating particles is less visible which give impression of clearer water. It is less glaring. The last one I will explain later.
2) If you wish to incorporate filter to the hood, place it closely next row to (and in front of) the lamp.
3) Hopefully, you can still find room to fix a fish feeding cover at the front (and front most only).

With the above configuration, you can now place 2 small fans on the hood that is right at the back of the tank. Ensure that the hood is thick enough to mount these fans on the hood’s long side, vertically. The fan should be orientated to extract air out of the hood. In this way, the fans are behind the tank and out of sight. This is also the idea fan location where the air in the hood will flows from front to back. That’s the reason why the lamp (heat source) has to be placed near the back – to reduce lamp’s heated air’s contact time/surface with the water. The air drawn by the fans will also evaporate the water at the water surface, thereby cooling the water too. The only heat (produced by the lamp) that you cannot eradicate directly is lamp’s heat transferred via radiation.

[ruyle]

Wright, since you "broke ground" about pump noise, check this out:
http://www.geocities.com/quentin_large/fishtank.html

[whuntley]

Bill,

Good stuff. I like to get a pump that is designed for silent operation, like the floating-piston linears from JEHMCO or the linear diaphragm pumps from Alita (Hagen's "The Pump," etc.). The muffler is the only thing you could do to lower their noise, I suspect. Most folks can't hear them running unless the airline is unterminated.

Internal power head is the quietest of all, probably.

Guess I could add a silencer to the air input of the "Kludge." ?????

Freddy,

Your thoughts have given me some problems to mull over. I have always liked lights well forward, to enhance irridescence of the fish. This also allows high background plants and low (non-view-blocking) front plants with minimal shadowing of stuff you want to see.

Needs some thought.

Rear fan(s) may be nice, but it is not compatible with a low profile unless blowing straight up (good place to send heat, anyway). Smaller diameter fans can be much noisier for a given volume flow.

I wouldn't think of using any lamp without a good reflector. You must move all possible visible lamp energy down into the water, or a single 13W CF will never grow plants well in a 10G tank. With a well-designed Miro reflector, it can be the equivalent of about 20W of other fluorescent light, but with far less heat.

I think of 2W/G as the crossover point where CO2 becomes about the most limiting nutrient. At 3W/G algae is a huge problem, without it. I'd like to stay just below the algae-problems threshold but bright enough for almost all plants to grow. The wet-dry can absorb maximum atmospheric CO2 which is enough for most lower-maintenance tanks.

Wright

[ruyle]

Aquarium should blend in harmony with the interior decor. It is to me a nice piece of functional, not to mention "living" furniture. In my case, I even waited for one whole year for Juwel to come up with the peach cabinet before I ordered it (I'd originally planned to get the 400 litres, which was the last size to come in that colour).

Mike, no doubt about it, that is one impressive (and expensive!) room
divider you got there :wink: