Hi,Originally Posted by zmzfam
How should I address you?
Anyway, sorry about that. I guess I was too used to doing that in another forum. Will try my best to change. But do allow some room for my forgetfulness sometimes.
And I got another question. I am aware of the importance of guppies breeding true. Does this apply to killies too?
What will happen to killies which do not breed true? Are they also Aquarium Strains? Will killies that do not breed true be infertile?
Hello
Yes, this has to do with the punnet square you mention.
Killifish have a lot of variation so it is difficult to say about breeding true... If you sell some one some brown australe they generally expect it to breed true (produce only brown fish). But if you sell someone some N. korthausae Mafia Island TAN 02-5 they kind of expect a few red fish appearing now and then to contrast the mainly yellow ones.
Keep well
IatFai,
You can address my co-moderator, "zmzfam", as Zulkifli. That is his real name and in case you didn't notice, most of us do not sign off with monikers, 'handles' or nick-names.
We may be a local SG forum but there are times one need to think beyond 'the little red dot'. For our members to feel comfortable and share their knowledge and experience, a forum's culture must be conducive for them to do so. Signing off in our names is considered common courtesy, which we extend to each other (unless there're valid reasons for using monikers).
As for killies breeding true, take note that variability is a natural occurence. Whether high variability, or not, is species dependent and does not constitute the off-spring as 'Aquarium Strain'. So long as the population code is not corrupted with another, the codes are still applicable. IIRC, natural color variation is called 'phenotype' (can someone confirm this?) and selected breeders for their 'color forms' are usually fertile.
Strain of guppies (and bettas), once fixed, produces off-spring that share similar characteristics as the breeders but occasionally, there might be 'fall-backs' to earlier generation (perhaps grandpa guppy).
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Killies that are kept purely without having been interbred with other populations or species will breed true.
Those that do not breed true (i.e. produce a mix of colours or odd patterns), are those that have been hybridised with each other either accidentally or on purpose. These happens when some breeders accidentally keep females of the same species but of different populations together, thereby resulting in a mix-up and as a result, a mixed-up population.
There are also breeders that have done hybridisation on purpose to mix two traits of a particular species so that the resultant fish are a mix of the two parent species. Take for example the Luohan fish.
I personally do not like the idea of hybrid fish running around but such things do happen, either via human error (mixing up females) or via human intervention (the mixing of species on purpose), to produce such animals. Depending on genetic factors, some crosses will not result in fertile fish. Again these crosses were done as a scientific study.
For killies to be infertile they might have been fed with some hormone enhancers, thereby damaging their reproductive system. Certain batches of wonderfully coloured commercial imports of aquarium strain fish has resulted in such fish being released into the market. Again there are the infertile hybrids which can appear from time to time.
Phenotype refers to the outward appearance of the fish. For example a steel blue betta - Phenotype here is the Steel-blue colouration but it may carry other colour genes. Genotype here refers to a particular gene that this fish may carry. For example a young female betta that was the offspring of two Half Moon parents may not show the Half Moon trait but it will carry the genotype or gene for producing offspring that will show this trait.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
To make it all simple here are the steps:
1) Don't keep hybrids. If you do, keep them by themselves.
2) If you keep aquarium strains, keep them as such (DO NOT MIX females ever. This applies to loc. and pop. coded fish too.).
3) Keep location and collection codes intact.
4) Apply the use of generation codes (F1, F2 etc.) if applicable.
5) Outcross regularly to prevent deterioration of a gene pool.
6) If they're wild-caught fish then just use "Wild". I see many LFS labelling their stocks as "Wild".
7) Genetics can be very confusing so lets just keep to fishkeeping. :wink:
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
A note on locations-if you keep killies with these jot the locations as accurately as possibly in a record book. Don't just keep the original bag, as accidents can happen. Try to memorize it if possible(not if you begin keeping many), but refer to the record book or other hobbyists for accuracy.
The name should be presented as Simpsonichtys fulminantis Guanambi BHS 95/2. The italicized (and Latinized) scientific name is followed by a location and a collection code that says it was on the 12th map site of the BHS group's 1995 collection trip. The location should not include quotes (single or double) and the scientific name is always italicized, except in ascii systems that don't allow font changes. For those, I sometimes try to make the difference clear by using the old convention of enclosing the italicized word(s) with asterisks, such as *Nothobranchius* for Nothobranchius.
Simpsonichthys is just Latin for "Simpson fish." My Latin is too limited to know exactly what fulminantis means, but I suspect it refers to the appearance of the fish, somehow. magnificus is easier, as it is a magnificent little fish. Note that the Genus is always initially capitalized, and the specific (species) name is not, even when it is an adaptation of a proper noun, like korthausae. The latter is a Notho named after Edith Korthaus, meaning Korthaus's Nothobranchius. The possessive is feminine, because Edith is a lady.
The scientific name is in Latin and italicized, while location and collection codes are not. You tell the name of the genus by the word that has an initial capital and is in italics. The species name (and sub-species for trinomials) will be without an initial capital. The location name should never be italicized [Monrovia can be used as a species name as monroviae but should not be used in that form for the location (a common mistake).]
Many locations and collection codes are at the whim of the collector, and many collectors aren't anxious to lead tourists to a fragile site, so we do the best we can with what we can get.
That map site mentioned above may be trusted to a discreet chronicler, like Roger Langton, but probably will not be published as GPS coordinates for the general public to see.
I realize many others have answered these basic questions to some extent, but I was off playing "Election Clerk" and didn't have time to put in my bloviations until today.
A recent problem happened when I sent some eggs to Singapore with an incorrect location spelling and an older generic name. I hope the few fish that hatched get a better label than what I provided.
Rivulus is undergoing a re-evaluation and some are being split off into new genera. What I sent were originally tagged as "Rivulus marmoratus Dandriga Belize Jan 2000." The correct location actually was Dangriga Belize, but Costa had recently reclessified them as Cryptolebias marmoratus, then found that name had been used on a fossil fish so we got to retype the labels a third time as:
Kryptolebias marmoratus Dangriga Belize Jan 2000.
Dangriga Belize is the location and I think the Jan 2000 is Bruce Turner's collection trip to Belize in January of 2000, but I'm not sure. [I leave it alone until I know it was a mistake.] Neither are a part of the scientific name, and are rarely (if ever) used by taxonomists and ichthyologists. They were added when the hobby started losing species in the '70s and '80s by inadvertent hybridization, and are mostly for the benefit of hobby breeders. OK? They are the most significant part of the name, and you will hear hobbyist/breeders at club meetings asking how those "M'bonge" are doing when asking about some Scriptaphyos the other is working with.
Most killifolk will know you are talking about Fundulopanchax walkeri GH2/74 if you just mention the "GH-2s." [Putting the year after a slash is apparently an older European convention, not used much any more. The meaning is pretty obvious, anyway.]
Wright
01 760 872-3995
805 Valley West Circle
Bishop, CA 93514 USA
From fulminantis we can split it up into "fulmi" and "minantis".
Root Word = fulmi (as defined by a Latin dictionary)
fulmineus -a -um [of lightning; like lightning , rapid or destructive].
Root Word = minantis
minae : battlements, parapets / threats, menaces.
Thereby the species name means - with lightning colours.
The "threat" part appears when the males display towards each other or are doing a courtship dance with the females. I have seen them doing this and it is a very beautiful sight.
Etymology of the species name is always stated on the original descriptions of the species. I have no access to the original description of this species so whatever I have stated is purely of my own research using an online Latin dictionary.
Fish.. Simply Irresistable
Back to Killies... slowly.
You're not the only one having difficulties pronouncing, understanding and speaking Latin. [I have the problem of remembering them... bl**dy long names for such a tiny fish, I'd always say]
Do visit the Greater Cincinnati Killifish Association (GCKA), an affiliate member of The American Killifish Association (AKA)*. Their Fishroom Library is a treasure trove of information!
As for yours (and mine) little hiccup with Latin, try these...
Say It! Understand It! - an overview of that Latin/Greek and what some of it means.
Pro-nun-see-a-shun - a general guide to those hard-to-pronounce names.
A Rose is a Rose .. or Must We Use Those Latin Names? - a clarification of nomenclature.
Nomenclature and Killifish - why those names are important.
Take it one step at a time... you can't everything in one day :wink:
* I suspect AKA's is being hack or already hacked into. This was what appeared on my screen earlier)
I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
Ronnie Lee
Yeah, it is being hacked. "Site not Secure".* I suspect AKA's is being hack or already hacked into. This was what appeared on my screen earlier
This was posted in the Trading forum. I thought it would be more appropriate if I asked questions here.
How would I know which fish to select as my breeding stock?
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks