Converting fishroom into killie room - questions

[jerseyjay]

I have my 10x10 fishroom filled with emersed plant setups, dwarf south american cichlids, west african dwarfs, Malawi/Tanganyika cichlids and other misc. I cought killie disease and I can't snap out of it. I want to convert my 55G Malawi setup on opposite wall into reef (within next few months) and current rack into killie production



On the bottom you see 3 x 20long, middle-left 4x10g and middle-right current 2.5g killie setups (Nsukka & Misaje). Top shelf has 4 unused 10s, 1 x 10g w/ guppies and 1 x 10g with aged water. As you can see this setup could be easily tweaked to house "a lot" of species.

Questions:

1. Breeder setups (non-annuals)
- Bare bottom or not ?
- moss / najas / riccia or no plants
- sides covered or bare walls

2. Petri Dishes necessary ?
- I found plastic ones on ebay (good enough ?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...848573413&rd=1

3. Food
- I'm feeding daily blackworms and tubifex worms (kept in refrigerator and washed daily)

4. RO. necessity or not ?

I'm collecting some eggs but most of them get covered in fungus within few days. I was reading about ghost shrimp approach and will try that next time. What container should I keep them in ? I know shrimp will not fit into petri dishes.

Current water specs:
- temperature ~74F
- PH ~ 7
- KH ~ 4
- conductivity not measured yet (will do so in next few days)

I will come back with more questions as I go.

Any tips on how to efficiently setup this rack ?. Should I invest in 5.5g tanks or should I setup more 2.5g. Should I keep 20long or convert them in 10g.

Any tips and answers to my above questions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Jay Luto

[nonamethefish]

I think this mainly depends on what kind/how many species you want to keep. The 20's could be used for spawning multiple fish or growing out a large spawn.

BTw, I say delete the other topic and keep it all here.

[jerseyjay]

Come on guys. 40 views and no replies :wink:

Take a stab at it

[stormhawk]

Hello Jay, my answers in blue.

1. Breeder setups (non-annuals)
- Bare bottom or not ?
- moss / najas / riccia or no plants
- sides covered or bare walls

Bare bottom tanks are easy to clean but fishes are less skittish when there's some gravel covering the bottom. A thin layer of gravel will do.
Plants? Use mosses or java ferns. Other plants aren't tough enough.
Its entirely your choice to cover the sides. Simple use of coloured plastic dividers can ensure some privacy for the pairs.

2. Petri Dishes necessary ?
- I found plastic ones on ebay (good enough ?)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...848573413&rd=1

Not really necessary. Standard plastic tubs used to keep food will do. These are usually the clear type of plastic containers. Alternatively, small plastic tanks will do. It all depends on what you intend to use them for.

3. Food
- I'm feeding daily blackworms and tubifex worms (kept in refrigerator and washed daily)

Live foods like the blackworms and tubifex are great. Add in daphnia or perhaps adult brine shrimp for some variety.

4. RO. necessity or not ?

I'm collecting some eggs but most of them get covered in fungus within few days. I was reading about ghost shrimp approach and will try that next time. What container should I keep them in ? I know shrimp will not fit into petri dishes.

RO is a necessity if you're thinking of keeping softwater killies. I suppose if you stick to tough species like gardneris then RO isn't a necessity after all. To ensure the eggs don't get fungused, incubate them in containers with a weak solution of diluted methylene blue. Change water daily and look for any sign of development. DO NOT touch the eggs. If its possible just take the whole mop/plant containing the eggs and incubate in a water-filled tray. Shrimps are fine in this aspect but make sure they're small in size and are not ghost shrimps. I would stick with young cherry shrimp for this purpose. :wink:

[TyroneGenade]

Hi Jay,

Nice to see you getting rid of those mundane Malawis. Tanganyikans are much better and killies better still.

1. Breeder setups (non-annuals)
- Bare bottom or not ?
- moss / najas / riccia or no plants
- sides covered or bare walls

Fine layer of sand or gravel, lots of plants, let algae grow on the sides and COVER the tank with a tight fitting lid (this is very important).

2. Petri Dishes necessary ?
- I found plastic ones on ebay (good enough ?)

Those are perfectly fine but what are you going to use them for? Most killies will estabish permenant breeding colonies in your tanks so you shouldn't have to pick eggs, and if you do on the mainpage of killies.com there are links to some good articles on rearing non-annual eggs that excludes petri dishes and IMHO works much better.

3. Food
- I'm feeding daily blackworms and tubifex worms (kept in refrigerator and washed daily)

If you have no problems so far then don't change but I would suggest you introduce the fish to some spirulina flake so balance the diet and provide some roughage. The diet may also be too rich so let them fast a few days each week.

4. RO. necessity or not ?

I don't know much about Singapore water other than that people are now adding Chloramine. In my experiance killies are water parameter tolerant but do no like chloramine at all. I would replace the RO unit with a multiple carbon filter system as Wright describes elsewhere.

I'm collecting some eggs but most of them get covered in fungus within few days.

.

Fungusing eggs are dead eggs. They have either died naturally by not being fertilized or were damaged while being picked. If you are collecting the eggs off the mops then leave them on the mops and simply move the mop to a tub for incubation.

Current water specs:
- temperature ~74F
- PH ~ 7
- KH ~ 4
- conductivity not measured yet (will do so in next few days)

Seems fine to me.

Any tips on how to efficiently setup this rack ?. Should I invest in 5.5g tanks or should I setup more 2.5g. Should I keep 20long or convert them in 10g.

Your setup will evolve naturally to suit your needs. Then you will realize it is all a big mistake and redesign it. About this time you will switich to Bettas and discover your system is again wholey inadequate. IMHO keep the 20 Long. They are great for fry rearing or for permanent setup. It would also be great for a spawning group of sjoestedti.

tt4n

[RonWill]

Questions:

1. Breeder setups (non-annuals)
- Bare bottom or not ?
- moss / najas / riccia or no plants
- sides covered or bare walls

Bare, bottom with black sticker or paint. That seems to make fishes color better and less skittish. A pot of anubias double-duty as a refuge from aggressive mate and furnished with a thick, longish spawning mop (use empty film canister as float). Walls or partitions can be kept bare/clear (the killies think they have tank mates :wink: )

2. Petri Dishes necessary ?
- I found plastic ones on ebay (good enough ?)

Are these dishes for incubation? I prefer to water incubate them in takeaway containers that can accomodate the whole mop, since I can't see them very well. Egg-laden mops, dripped dry/damp, can also be incubated in plastic bags, stored in a dark place.

3. Food
- I'm feeding daily blackworms and tubifex worms (kept in refrigerator and washed daily)

Tubifex, bloodworms, gut-loaded BS adults and even daphnia/BBS, are good conditioning food. Variety is never bad.

4. RO. necessity or not ?

That depends on water coming from the mains and how well acclimatized your killies are. Some are tolerant to harder water (eg. Fundulopanchax gardneri) but breeding Chromaphyosemion may be another issue.

I'm collecting some eggs but most of them get covered in fungus within few days. I was reading about ghost shrimp approach and will try that next time. What container should I keep them in ? I know shrimp will not fit into petri dishes

First things first... are the breeding pair/trio sexually mature? Are the pairs 'compatible'?

When eggs are viable, dip the mop into lightly-stained methylene blue solution or thick peat tea. Drip dry and pack. The fungicized eggs won't touch each other and the fungi growth cannot spread (unlike a cluster of eggs). If incubated 'dry', then shrimps won't be necessary.

I admit being nonchalant regarding water specs but it looks ok. pH can be further reduced ether via RO or peat-tea.

Any tips on how to efficiently setup this rack ?

hmm... have you thought of partitioning? Is this acceptable?

[jerseyjay]

Live foods like the blackworms and tubifex are great. Add in daphnia or perhaps adult brine shrimp for some variety

Live food.
If possible 7 days a week or mix it with dry ?

To ensure the eggs don't get fungused, incubate them in containers with a weak solution of diluted methylene blue.

How weak is weak ? Let's say I will be using 1 CUP container. How many drops of methylene blue would you recommend ?

[jerseyjay]

Great tips guys. Thanks a lot !!!

In general do you prefer to (non-anuals)

1. pick the mops
2. pick entire mop and place it into new tank (same water from previous tank or new ok ?)
3. Dry mops in containers
4. Dry on peat

are the breeding pair/trio sexually mature

Pair is mature. I'm picking eggs with my fingers but after reading I will start using straw or small tweezers.

[TyroneGenade]

Simply move the mop. Less stress, less risk of damaging eggs.

[stormhawk]

Jay, in response to your query:

7 days a week if possible. Put the fishes on the occasional fast otherwise they get too obese. For example feed them on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Don't feed on Thursday and Friday and resume feeding on Saturday and Sunday. This is entirely up to you but its best not to overfeed otherwise they can suffer from certain problems.

How weak is weak? I don't do exact measurements but what I usually do is to add enough methylene blue to tint the water a very light blue. It would be a better idea to incubate them entire mop. If you have to handle the eggs, use a cotton bud. Wet the tip and tease the egg off the mop. Do not handle them too much otherwise you may cause them to get fungused by accidental contamination when you touch them with your fingers.

[jerseyjay]

I was able to test my tap water with conductivity meter and got a reading of ~340 microsiemens.

What are the acceptable levels for general killie population ?

[froo]

Keep some the nature-style:

South american dwarfs with Rivulus and west african with Epiplatys or aphyosemion. Great dithers and a good way to keep twp species in one tank.

Epiplatys (top) Nanochromis (bottom).

[whuntley]

I was able to test my tap water with conductivity meter and got a reading of ~340 microsiemens.

What are the acceptable levels for general killie population ?

That would be a tds of about 170 ppm, which is delightful for most killifish. Aphyos from the rain forest might like it a bit lower (100-120 ppm), and Fp. or Nothos could tolerate it quite a bit higher (200-450). If your water is about 2/3 GH (100-120 ppm as CaCO3) you should get good results with almost any killifish. Borrow a GH test kit and check that. It should read about a GH of 6-8 degrees. If lower, your water has a bit of extra salt, probably. If higher (10), the monovalent ions are missing and you need some sodium and potassium. [The latter can come from the salt substitute, like "No Salt" for folks on a low sodium diet. You can add sodium with plain table salt (avoid those with silicates), but baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) gives better pH buffering.]

Most killies will breed in any water they can survive in, but rainforest species seem to have a problem with the calcium and magnesium of hard water making the eggs hard to hatch. Adding some RO water to the hatch water is the easy way to fix that if it happens. Some fish have a tendency to get Velvet disease in too-soft water. That's why we often add some salt to our Nothos.

Your water should be great.

Wright

[jerseyjay]

Thanks. I will report back with parameters.

1. When hatching eggs in petri dishes or other small containers, should they be closed or open to allow circulation ?
2. Should water be changed in those small containers while eggs are hatching ?

Wright,

I tried your approach with introducing ghost shrimp to small container but found 0 eggs out of 12 after day 1. Not scavenger after all :wink:

[whuntley]

Thanks. I will report back with parameters.

1. When hatching eggs in petri dishes or other small containers, should they be closed or open to allow circulation ?
2. Should water be changed in those small containers while eggs are hatching ?

Wright,

I tried your approach with introducing ghost shrimp to small container but found 0 eggs out of 12 after day 1. Not scavenger after all :wink:

That wasn't my approach, was it? I have never put shrimps in with eggs, AFAIK. I often use ramshorn snails (babies); sometimes Ostracods, Amphipods or Daphnia.

Petri dishes, by design, allow ample air circulation, as the lid has bumps that keep it from setting against the whole edge of the base. The large overlap between lid and base tends to retard evaporation, in dry climates like mine.

The best results with Petri dish hatching can only be obtained with frequent water changes, in my experience. Larger containers with Java moss can be more forgiving if a change is missed.

Wright