what do i need to know to get started

[twiztedcyster]

hi all,

i am brand new to killies and, as of yet, have not even purchased my first one. i am mostly an african cichlid nut, however i recently bought a small 10gal tank for my daughters that i was going to make into a african cichlid shell dweller tank. my wife told me she would like me to stock fish with more color since shellies are usually not as bright as other africans but most africans need a larger tank than 10 gal unless they are dwarf shell dwellers. wanting something more exotic than guppies & mollies ect, i came across killifish, but i am a complete dunce regarding these small, beautifully colored fish.

ok...ready for my barrage of questions? here goes:

1)what is a good species to start with that has a lot of color and would be comfortable in a 10gal tank

2)can i have more than one species in the same tank?
2a)i now have a couple of danios & rasboras in the tank that i was going to use as dither fish for the shellies i was going to order. is it ok to keep different types of fish in the same tank as killies?

3)how many killies could i put in a 10 gal tank?

4)of the species you suggest, what water conditions that are most suitable for that type of fish. i.e. ph/hardness/temp?

5)i have heard some killies do not live a long time. some are annual & some are non annual. i am more interested in the non annual variety. what would you suggest?

6)i know i had more questions when i started this post, but this is all i can think of now...if i have more, you will be sure to see them later in this post.

thanks in advance for any help and insight you may be able to provide and in the mean time i will be studying this site to learn all i can before adding any killies to the new tank.

steve

[whuntley]

Welcome Steve,

Always happy to hook a new addict -- er, hobbyist. :wink:

I suggest you start at the following location:

http://www.aka.org/pages/beginners.html

When you have absorbed most of that, come back with specific questions.

You will also find that searching the archives, here, will answer every question you asked, but our uncertain way of attaching "Subject" lines may make that too much of a challenge.

Wright

PS Thanks for using your real name, Steve, as it makes this a friendlier place. Also note that the powers that be frown on failure to capitalize or use of too much net slang/shortcuts (tho I'm often pretty guilty of the latter ).

[nonamethefish]

I'm assuming you wanted to give your daughter shellies so she could watch the behavior. Well, no worries about that, as killies have plenty of interesting behaviors as well...much of it centered around courtship and spawning. The only problem may be that the fish may be a bit shy at first. Possible species would include most Fp...like gardneri, striatum, etc.

Fellow newbie here...let me tell you that killies will be a ton of fun and are a will add a new dimension to your hobby. Killie keepers probably used some of the most specialized methods of breeding fish and dealing with resultant eggs.

[keehoe]

They are two type of hobbyist in the forum. I assume you only wants to setup a tank with some killies rather than keeping/ breeding one species in the name of Singapore Killies Hobbyist?

I am sure you have no problem keeping them as you have so much experience handling fishes. (At least better than me. For me, i am not even sure what species of fish that i previously kept. I only remember i kept them in freezer.)

I racommend Notho. Rachovii, one of the most colourful fish. That is the fish you see when you first enter this website.

So far i have tried a few species of killies. All Notho and Aus that i have tried so far bully my tetras. As such i am down to 2 neon from original 6. Silver tetra 1/6 and cardinal 1/5. I think i will try amano shrimp next time.

[TyroneGenade]

Steve, the BKA is about to start running a series for beginers in their monthly magazine. Perhaps you should sign up?

My suggestion is Fp. gardneri. You can start with 1 pr in a 10 gal and they will slowly fill it. They are perhaps the most undemanding fish. There is lots of info on the forum regarding these fish.

tt4n

[twiztedcyster]

Thanks so much for all of your input on this post and any future input. I tried going to the aka site but the library page seems to be down right now. i look forward to reading it when it comes back on line.

so i guess the consenses for one of my questions is that I could only have 1 pair in a 10gal? only one species in a tank? no adding a pair of n. rachovii along with a pair of fp. gardneri? sounds like i need a bigger tank, but i had a hard enough time convincing my wife to get this little 10gal. she seems to think our 75gal in the livingroom is enough. bah! humbug!

Thanks again,

Steve

Sunny South Florida, USA

[TyroneGenade]

About community killies, you can happily mix: Aphyosemion australe and Chromaphyosemion species; Fp. gardneri with Aphyosemion striatum (oddly enough), any of the previous lot with Epiplatys dageti; and you can mix Pseudoepiplatys annulatus with Poropanchax normani or a related species.

Mixing Nothos is not a good idea as they are poor competitors with other fish. N. korthausae is a bit more tolerant and is certainly not as fussy about food.

All would do fine on a high quality crushed flake (or something like this) with occasional feedings of baby brine shrimp.

tt4n

[twiztedcyster]

Awsome Tyrone! Thanks! I'm going to read up on all these species before I purchase anything, but i did have one other question. I know this could vary according to species, but what am I looking at in regards to quantity in a 10 gallon tank. Could i conceivably have a pair of aphyosernion australe, a pair of fp. gardneri and a pair of epiplatys dageti in the same 10 gallon tank without much aggression and fear of interbreeding?

Thanks,

Steve

Florida, USA

[whuntley]

Thanks so much for all of your input on this post and any future input. I tried going to the aka site but the library page seems to be down right now. i look forward to reading it when it comes back on line.

The beginner page isn't actually down. It just uses a stupid scroll system that is hopelessly slow in any browser but IE and may even be bad in that. The regular Windoze scroll bar doesn't work at all in my Netscrape browser.

You will find a couple of scroll arrows up in the middle left (a truly bizarre location for non-apple folk) and may have to be patient to uncover anything of interest. The scroll speed is just fine if reading it all for the first time, otherwise it needs to be fixed, IMHO.

Wright

[TyroneGenade]

but what am I looking at in regards to quantity in a 10 gallon tank.

For a 10 gallon I would only go with one species. The gardneri are quite variable and no two fish look the same. You could probably start with 2 pr and they would sort themselves out and fill the tank with fry to a maximum density the fish themselves will determine. Another good choice would be one of the Chromaphyosmeion species. Again start with 2 pair.

In such a small tank there really wouldn't be enough space for 2 species to establish a permanent colony. There would just be too many fish and the fry would not stand a chance... then again there is one lone Fp. marmoratus fry in with my pr of Fp. marmoratus and Pachypanchax playfairi and he seems to be surviving. The tank size is 40 cm x 25 cm and this may aford just enough surface area for that 1 fry to avoid notice. As the number of fish increase in the tank there will be no hiding place for fry. This would eventually be your problem. Communities are possible and you could probably hold 2 pr of each of the big species (gardneri, striatum, australe, dageti) and probably 4 pr of each of the small (annulatus and scheeli). How many fish your tank can hold depends more on the surface area than the volume so when you say "10 gal" I say "how wide and how broad?"

[RonWill]

Welcome to our little cyber-corner, Steve. Whereabout are you from? If you can update your profile, I'd most appreciate it.

Others have voiced good suggestions but I was waiting for someone to mention tank covers! :wink:

Unless your 10gal has plenty of floating plants, some killies tend to be skittish in new setups and are very likely to abandon tank. (I have a collection of 'crispies' to vouch for my neglect ) In lieu of bulky covers, a glass panel will work too.

Enjoy the new additions... killies can be very addicting!

[wcknight]

Hi folks, just checking in. I've been following this site fairly closely the last couple of weeks and absorbing as much info as I can.

I'm new to killies also but not new to tropical fish (40 years in the hobby including 15 years as part owner of 2 aquaruim stores).

I just got my first 3 batches of killie eggs from the AKA list. They are not due to hatch until Feb (N Guntheri) and May (Rachovii) so I am real anxious to get it going. Meanwhile it gives me some time to make preparations.

I way on the other side of the world from most folks (east coast US) but I see Tyronne (from Italy) and Wright (from Calif) are here as well. I'm hoping my general TF background helps me avoid most of the newbie pitfalls, but most probably I expect there will be a lot of setback anyway.

take care, Wes

[whuntley]

I'm hoping my general TF background helps me avoid most of the newbie pitfalls, but most probably I expect there will be a lot of setback anyway.

Welcome Wes,

Most killifolk backed into them from the more general tropical fish hobby, so you are not alone.

Two adjustments come to mind.

First: Getting used to the dry diapause for semi-annuals and annuals will be different. That means you need to learn to find and understand developing eggs hiding in peat until you have your own times worked out for your storage conditions. Practice on the ones you have.

Second: No problem if you have ever kept hatchet fish or wild Bettas. Killies will jump out and become crispy critters on the carpet, too. Cover tanks carefully, particularly when introducing new fish. Later some floating water sprite or duckweed can give them a virtual ceiling that they may respect (maybe).

Good luck,

Wright

[wcknight]

Thanks Wright, for the advice and the welcome.

I used to have an arrowana that I raised from 3 inches to over 3 feet. (It eventually became a major attraction in our aquarium store) When I had him as a juvenile in a 20 gallon with water half filled, he still managed to jump out through a full hood cover, even with books or rocks on top.

Plus the spiny nose eels, and rope fish and knifefish have all made their way to floor, some ending up as crispy critters, others lucky enough to be spotted before they dried out.

Way back when, we did manage to get a tankful of orange australes in for sale. I never got a chance to breed them though. One good way to dampen your enthusiam for your hobby is to make it your full time business. Running a fish shop was a real joy, but I had little time to enjoy it as a hobby.

Starting over with Killies for the first time reminds me of when I first really got into fish keeping. There is a lot of anticipation and excitement. I just can't wait to go to my first AKA convention. By then I may have a tankful of nothos and may have some breeding to boot.



Thanks much, Wes

[twiztedcyster]

Well, i now have my first killifish and i am very happy and excited. They were sold to me as "Aphy. Gardneri Misage" but i thought Gardneri Misage was Fundulopanchax. Please correct me if i'm wrong or rather if the person that sold them to me was wrong. The male is blue with red spots and yellow and red on the tips of the fins. They are not of breeding age yet (only about an inch long) and i cant wait. I'll keep you informed of my progress.

thanks for all your help,

steve

sunny south florida

[stormhawk]

Hi there Steve,

The fish you have there is indeed a Fundulopanchax. Here's the proper species name and location spelling for the fish you have.

Fundulopanchax nigerianus Misajé

The Misajé locality has also been spelt as Misage or just Misaje with the extra thingy to the letter e.

Here's a link to an informative page regarding this species and this particular population.

Fundulopanchax nigerianus Misajé

[twiztedcyster]

Hey...Thanks for the information! I had suspected that these fish were misidentified and just before i got your message i looked into it as well. BKA (British Killifish Association) has a great gallery site. http://www.bka.org.uk/piclib.php

As per that site, I realized I had Fundulopanchax Gardneri Nigerianus Makurdi swimming in my tank(at least thats what it looks like if the picture is accurate). Not Aphysemion Gardn. misage as was previously labeled. I suppose this sort of thing happens a lot. How different is Misaje from Makuri? From the site you sent me and the picture and information on BKA they look like the same fish. Perhaps 2 different strains of the same fish?

I also had another question, if you will. Is it possible to have different species of killifish(perhaps aphyosemion) in the same 10 gal tank without the fear of interbreeding or too much aggression? As my experience suggests with african cichlids, this is possible, but i know killies are a lot different. If another species of killie is out of the question, are other types of fish possible? To tell you the truth, I had a couple of danios I put in the tank weeks before I added the killies to cycle the tank and the killies don't seem to be bothering the danios much. I suspect this could be because my killies aren't full grown yet. Please let me know what you think.

Yours Truly,

Stephen Butcher

Sunny South Florida

[stormhawk]

Hi Steve,

Yes they are two different strains of the same fish. The Makurdi is also listed as a population of Fp. nigerianus.

Pictures can tell you alot but provided they are detailed enough to show you the differences. As it is, most of the populations of Fp. nigerianus look similar to each other so you might be pretty confused.

My advise is to keep the code intact. Since you received them as Misaje, keep it to that. Just remember who you got it from if there happens to be a hiccup in proper identification later along the way. Then get back to the original breeder whom you got your fish from.

Yes it is possible to have different species of killies in the same tank. I would just maintain the males in such a setup unless the females are easily told apart. Even then, the danger of interbreeding does occur from time to time.

Since you have the nigerianus in the tank, try other species like one of the australe strains. As long as they are easily told apart (females importantly! ), you can mix and match provided they're of similar size and requirements.

You could however, have some smaller Lampeyes like the Poropanchax species in the same tank as the nigerianus. Or some of the Epiplatys species.

A good source of reference would be the URL I listed earlier. In that website, there's a treasure trove of info with regards to the Aphyosemion species. Look into the species pages and most of the time they will list the other fish species found in the same biotope as the fish were in.