Aplocheilus panchax

[timebomb]

Hi, fellas,

Thought I show you all the pictures of the fish I collected the other day with Kee Hoe and Kho. The fish were taken from a stream along Tagore Drive about a hundred metres from Upper Thomson Road. They're the only Killies that are native to Singapore so I would like to attach a collection code to their names. Should it be "Aplocheilus panchax Tagore 04"? Jianyang, any suggestions?

I'm going to show you all many pictures because I need someone to tell me how to sex them. They all look the same to me but I'm quite sure there are males and females among them.








Loh K L

[hwchoy]

interestingly none of them seem to display the blue caudal fin trim. in any case this species seem to be very wide ranging and also significant colour variation.

that said, I am not sure if it is useful to attach a collection code to anything collected outside of the protected catchment and forest streams. most accessible waterways in Singapore have been exposed to the aquarium population for so long that it is hard to say if they are really native or escaped populations from other locations.

[stormhawk]

Depends on how you want the code to be. Examples would be the following:

Tagore Drive S 04 (S for Singapore)
Tagore Drive S 12/04 (12/04 for Dec 04)
Tagore Drive KHK 04 (KHK for Kee hoe, Hwchoy and Kho)

Any would be fine. If you intend to breed them the code can be applied.

Say for example you choose code 1, then it would be read as:

Aplocheilus panchax "Tagore Drive" S 04

All said, I don't know much about Aplocheilus species but the males should have a pair of pointed pelvic fins and as usual, more colourful than the females are. :wink:

[hwchoy]

maybe SG instead of just S?

[stormhawk]

Yup sorry, forgot about that better abbreviation.

So the code would read as follows:

Aplocheilus panchax "Tagore Drive" SG 04

That is, if you prefer no.1

[whuntley]

If you plan to start this process, you need a central repository for collection information. Nothing is more frustrating than a collection code that cannot be traced back, properly, to its origins.

In the US, Roger Langton has long been the trusted agent who gets the detailed map info and collection data and then publishes a booklet every few years with all known collections listed. [He edits location and habitat detail to discourage poachers from going out to strip fish from delicate habitats.]

He only releases more complete info, like GPS coordinates, to qualified scholars and others who he thinks will respect the original collector's location.

The process can be highly sensitive and political, so beware when you set it up that the "Recorder" is someone who will be unlikely to enter into feuds. Langton and Dale Weber fought like cats and dogs, so most of the extensive collections by Weber and his associates were never entered into the US database.

Good luck,

Wright

[stormhawk]

For that case I will retain the records as such in the census.
All information will be kept strictly confidential and released only upon permission of the breeders/collectors themselves.

[timebomb]

Aplocheilus panchax "Tagore Drive" SG 04

Yes, I think I like that name. It makes the fish sound important .

Wright, speaking of GPS co-ordinates, it so happens yours truly is a land surveyor. I have all the necessary equipment to capture co-ordinates accurate to the nearest centimetre but I don't think Jianyang would want that in his records .

Loh K L

[turaco]

KL,
Why "Tagore Drive" when they can be found in many parts of Singapore? Perhaps Malaysia even. They look all the same .

[timebomb]

Why "Tagore Drive?

The answer's pretty obvious, isn't it, Gan? Because that's where I caught them . I know they are found in many other locations around Singapore. Perhaps we should go and catch more of them so that we can build up a whole list of Aplocheilus panchax with different collection codes.

Loh K L

[shortman]

Perhaps we should go and catch more of them

Hmm... I am interested to catch more. :-)

But make sure to have additional clothware not too sure what will happen to keehoe again.

[stormhawk]

Well, if the need for proper GPS positioning data for the actual spot of collection arises, any information would be appreciated. This can apply for any locality in Singapore. Of course for those close to roads or towns need only a map. I was thinking more for populations caught in the forested areas, where GPS data would be much more applicable.

Even in Singapore we might see variation amongst the Aplocheilus panchax populations in different areas. For that reason their local variability cannot be discounted.

I have seen some specimens with a light blue border to the tail, and also those without the border, as given in Choy's picture. It would be a good idea to go around and search for them, given that we have the time to accomodate such a collection trip. :wink:

[timebomb]

.that said, I am not sure if it is useful to attach a collection code to anything collected outside of the protected catchment and forest streams. most accessible waterways in Singapore have been exposed to the aquarium population for so long that it is hard to say if they are really native or escaped populations from other locations.

Choy, it may interest you to know that the stream where the fish were caught is connected to Pierce Reservoir. There's a culvert under Upper Thomson Road that connects the two.

Loh K L

[hwchoy]

Choy, it may interest you to know that the stream where the fish were caught is connected to Pierce Reservoir. There's a culvert under Upper Thomson Road that connects the two.

Loh K L

not sure exactly what you mean but all the reservoirs are already contaminated. hack you can find LARGE siamese tigers in Pierce.

Nevertheless it would be an interesting exercise to sample this fish across the island and see if there is any discernible variability pattern.

[hwchoy]

Even in Singapore we might see variation amongst the Aplocheilus panchax populations in different areas. For that reason their local variability cannot be discounted.

I have seen some specimens with a light blue border to the tail, and also those without the border, as given in Choy's picture. It would be a good idea to go around and search for them, given that we have the time to accomodate such a collection trip. :wink:

agreed. most of us are aware of the variability in the Trigonostigma heteromorpha as well as Systomus hexazona. unfortunately both these two species are usually found only inside the protected catchment.

erm… I think the pics are from timebomb

[turaco]

Unless this fish shows such variation that it can not be found elsewhere, a location code don't really mean much, other than for personal record of where it was found.

[stormhawk]

Gan, the location code does mean alot in some sense. You must understand that we cannot say just because one population, i.e. Tagore Drive, looks the same like a population caught in Johore, say, Kota Tinggi, are one and the same. Genetically they may be slightly different. If I caught a panchax in Malacca and it looks the same as one from Singapore, I cannot say they are one and the same. They are the same species yes, but of different populations separated by a long distance. Even in Singapore, if I caught one from Bukit Timah and compare it with the Tagore Drive, I must say they are different. Why? Because they are separated geographically. In such cases, especially in isolated populations, there can be slight differences in colouration or pattern.

I am of the opinion that even as a personal record, such location data is necessary and vital to keep the species as such. Even among some Austrolebias species, they are found on ponds along some roads and highways like the species with the Ruta XXXX populations in which these ponds can be on opposite sides of the roads and still produce slightly different looking fish.

People have always said, they are all one and same but even then, slight differences can be seen. Until someone studies the genetics of each population in detail, we must maintain such codes.

[keehoe]

I propose
Aplocheilus panchax FairPrice SG 04

Since it is caught next to NTUC FairPrice warehouse. Beside, it sounds more affortable anyway.

Loh, any NTUC F1 egg available? ( not talking about 40cents chicken egg).

*For those of you doesn't know what NTUR Fair Price is, It is a company similar to coldstorage. Selling daily needs in a controled price.

[keehoe]

Please let me know if you guys go there fish hunt again. It is a must to ask Kho to go along if you worry about mosquito bite. Kho is a magnet to female mosquito. Handsome!

I think it is a good idea to bring along telescopic net/ pole net/ cast net.

PCK Yellow boot is definate no no. It will suck you in. So a word of warning!!

Kho, your Albino female is ready for collection.

[nonamethefish]

I'm not sure-but I haven't seen any Aplocheilus panchax with a location Code of any sort...nor A. lineatus. I think it is high time that someone bring some new ones back into the hobby-as the new golden wonder is wiping out the original wildtype or otherwise lessening the amount of red and black they sport.