Breeding Australes

[drew85]

Hi,

I'm new to Killies and also to this forum. I met up with Mr Loh last weekend and was encouraged by his passion in this hobby. I've been interested in Killies quite a while back, but lacked the means to keep them well. I started with Bettas and succeded in breeding them. Subsequently, delved into planted tanks and shrimps.

Hence, it is only recently that I tried my hands at breeding killies. Mr Loh gave me a trio of Australes in addition to the chocolate Australe which I purchased. He also gave me a trio of Gadneri. Sadly, one of the female Gadneri jumped, and died. I'm still having problems with the Gadneri, they are edgy and not as settled as the Australes in my planted tank.

I bought a 2ft glass tank, filled with some brownish granular-clay like substrate made by Taikong. Added a spawning mop (yarn provided by Mr Loh). I added a pair of Australes, and fed them with tubifex (will killies accept frozen blood worms?)

My main concern is, how long will it take for them to lay their eggs? As for the Gadneri, what's the best environment to allow them to settle?

Please advise.

Drew

PS: I'd like to get to know you all better.
About me: I'm still a student, and am in my final year in poly, studying mechanical engineering.

[CM Media]

I bought a 2ft glass tank, filled with some brownish granular-clay like substrate made by Taikong. Added a spawning mop (yarn provided by Mr Loh). I added a pair of Australes, and fed them with tubifex (will killies accept frozen blood worms?)

For breeding killifish, we prefer to use a bare take. Australes will lay it's egg in the substrate but I think it will still choose the mop more as they tend to lay their eggs nearer to the water surface. You realise when you start to pick eggs from the mop. Most of the eggs will be laid nearer to the top of the mop. I've being feeding my killifish in my planted tank with frozen bloodworms only.

My main concern is, how long will it take for them to lay their eggs?

When the fish is comfortable and mature, it'll lay eggs everyday. Feed them daily and you'll be rewarded with eggs.

As for the Gadneri, what's the best environment to allow them to settle?

Simple, all some plants and driftwood to the tank or keep them in your planted tank. As mentioned, when the fish feel at ease, they'll swim around and start to spawn.

[timebomb]

Welcome to the forum, Drew.

If you're keeping the Fundulopanchax gardneri N'sukka in a community tank, please take note that they can be quite aggressive. They're edgy now because they're new to your tank but once settled down, they will bite the fins and tails of slow-swimming fishes. A pair will be sufficient but if you like to have another female, you can drop over to my house to pick up another one. By the way, the fish were given to me by Ronnie Lee aka Ronwill.

As for your Aphyosemion australes, the easiest way to breed them is to keep them in a bare tank and throw in several spawning mops. Feed them well and they will give you a lot of eggs. Collecting the eggs isn't a problem but quite often, incubating them successfully is. So far, I think Esther Lee came up with the best method. She collects the eggs and incubate them on top of moist peat moss. The peat moss she uses can be found in some fish shops. The brand is Azoo. Offhand, I would say the fish shops at Clementi Block 328 should have this product.

Here are some pictures to show you how Esther does it:

She collects the eggs and puts them on the top of moist peat moss. If you're using your hands to handle the eggs, don't forget to wash them thoroughly first. Best is if you use boiling water to wash your hands. That will definitely kill all the germs Jokes aside, the peat moss is just slightly moist, not soggy wet.


This is the container she uses to hold the peat moss. I think Esther keeps the container covered all the time but opens it once a day to let in some air and to check on the eggs. Fungused eggs should be discarded immediately.


When the time is right to wet the eggs, she simply dunks everything into water. Time is about right on the 8th day.


Besides having some plants in the container, she also puts in a drop or 2 of Liquidfry. Liquidfry by itself isn't a food but it encourages the growth of infusoria.


From a trio, Esther now has something like 300 fry. She's the most successful Killifish breeder I know.

Loh K L

[drew85]

Thanks for the advice, Mr Loh and Mr Au.

Mr Au, regarding the Gadneri, I have driftwood and lots of shade created by my plants. I suppose, like what Mr Loh said, it has got to do with acclimatization.

Mr Loh, I chanced upon this website, www.aquaticquotient.com (I read your article on Mosses, and it left my jaw hanging. To think that I was so close to buying the weeping, and taiwan moss.), and got the address of c328. I managed to get the Azoo peat as described. As for liquidfry, I have that too. Regading Killies, when I was at your place, you made some mention about hybrids. I wasn't sure which aspect you were refering to, hybrids of the same species or different species. Let me cite an example: if i place a chocolate male and orange spotted female Australe together, will the batch of frys be considered hybrids?

Looking at the big picture, I understand the implications of hybrids of different species and will not condone it. But Australes have their variations, and will that be considered as hybrids?

[timebomb]

Regading Killies, when I was at your place, you made some mention about hybrids. I wasn't sure which aspect you were refering to, hybrids of the same species or different species.

Drew,

A hybrid only comes about when you cross 2 different species. The A. australes come in several strains but they all belong to the same species. You already have a male Chocolate when I gave you a trio of Orange. If you use your male Chocolate to mate with the females of the orange, I don't know what the offsprings will look like but I bet they will be very colourful. It would be like when a Chinese marry a Malay. The offspring can either be fair or dark but he or she isn't a hybrid because both the parents belong to the same species, Homo sapiens.

I warned you about creating new hybrids. But that can only come about if you have more than one species of Killie. I don't think you can cross a Fundulopanchax gardneri with an Aphyosemion australe though. They belong to different genera. It would be like trying to cross a dog with a cat, I think. Or when a human tries to mate with a chimpanzee

In nature, there's only a chocolate australe. The orange, spotless orange, gold etc are all aquarium strains. In other words, they were selectively bred by hobbyists for their colours. They are not hybrids. Sometimes, we get overboard and become critical of those who mix their chocolates with their oranges etc but as far as I'm concerned, so long as you're not creating a hybrid, you're not doing anything unethical.

Loh K L

[drew85]

I have been observing the breeding tank. The male chocolate chases the orange spotted female around. Usually, how long does this go on for? So far, there's no eggs in the spawning mop.

Does lighting play a role in the breeding process. Like your tank, my breeding tank is placed away from direct light. Hence it is slightly illuminated by ambient light.

I think I'm quite impatient over this breeding issue. It just excites me to be able to breed them.

Drew

[timebomb]

I have been observing the breeding tank. The male chocolate chases the orange spotted female around. Usually, how long does this go on for?

As far as I know, forever

Does lighting play a role in the breeding process.

I think they prefer dark.

Loh K L

[stormhawk]

Hi Drew, welcome to the forum. I see you're from Bukit Batok so that makes us fellow townsmen. Perhaps one of these days I might be free so we can meet up and talk a little. Good luck with your killies.

[Al Baldwin]

Loh K L SAID:"I warned you about creating new hybrids. But that can only come about if you have more than one species of Killie. I don't think you can cross a Fundulopanchax gardneri with an Aphyosemion australe though. They belong to different genera. It would be like trying to cross a dog with a cat, I think. Or when a human tries to mate with a chimpanzee Laughing "


Col Jorgen Scheel studied numerous hybrids caused by crossing AUS and GAR and found varying levels of fertility.
In his book Rivulins Of The Old World on page 100 you can see the results of AUS/GAR crossing. AUS and GAR should not be kept together as they readily crossbreed and produce viable offspring.

[drew85]

I noticed that the Australes spawn anywhere except the spawning mops. It's hard to locate the eggs in the substrate. Is there any way to remedy the situation without resorting to removing the substrate?

Drew

[stormhawk]

Catch the fish and place them in an empty plastic tank with simple filtration via the use of a small sponge filter. Keep the air bubbling to a gentle flow and they will do OK.

Throw in some mops, feed them as per normal and get ready to collect lots and lots of eggs.

Do that or they will lay their eggs all over the place, which makes it difficult to find those eggs laid away from the mop.

[timebomb]

AUS and GAR should not be kept together as they readily crossbreed and produce viable offspring.

Thanks, Al. I'll keep that in mind but even if I don't believe they can interbreed, I never keep the AUS and GAR in the same tank. The latter is just too ferocious.

IIs there any way to remedy the situation without resorting to removing the substrate?

Drew, if you don't want to remove the substrate or transfer the fish into a bare tank, you can try changing your floating mop into a sinking one. A sinking mop is closer to the substrate and chances are your fish will prefer to lay their eggs among the strands of the mop. The regulars here will tell you the fish just love to play hide and seek in the mops.

Loh K L

[drew85]

Mr Loh,

Listening to their advice, I got a sperate 12L tank for the Australes, and kept it bare. I was just wondering how to keep the base of the tank clean. I'm sure that after some time, detritus will build up from the remains of food and waste. For the Australes, what is its preference? Floating or sinking mop?

Now that I have an empty 2 feet tank to spare, I moved the Gadneri in. It was instantaneous; the moment they were in, they started to show signs of mating and possibly spawning, which wasn't evident when they were in the planted community tank. I left a spawning mop in there, but doubt it'll be used.

[stormhawk]

Though the question was directed at KL I'd take a stab at answering.

Drew, the australes have no preference over which type of mop. When I used to have them not too long ago they spawned in any mop, be it floating or sinking mops. They will even spawn on the filter or anything else that's in that tank. For bare tanks the reason why I said its better for breeding purposes is because its much easier to maintain that way. Every weekend, use a small siphon and suck out the detritus at the bottom when you do a water change. A weekly water change is good enough for the australes and they are pretty used to fresh tap water. Keep the tank covered though, these fellas can be good jumpers when they want to be "Superman".

[drew85]

Point noted Jian Yang. Right now, I've got a difficulty feeding my Killies. Seems that the Australes will only eat tubifex worms. The Gadneri will accept frozen blood worms.
I am quite reluctant to use tubifex as they could lead to intestinal parasites problems and other fish diseases.
Any other types of fish food that can be used besides BBS.

[zmzfam]

You have to get them used to the type of food you want them to eat. Don't expect them to change diet overnight. If you want them to eat frozen bloodworms, feed them only that but sparingly at first. Remove any uneaten food the next day.

You can also train them to eat dried prepared fish food such as flakes and such.

[Michsoon]

Hi all,

Got a question on hatching period, read that Australe takes about 12-14 days to hatch on water, how many days will it be on wet peat?

In this thread Mr. Loh says 8 days, will it be faster on wet peat?

What about Fundulopanchax gardneri, how many days will they take to hatch on wet peat?

Thanks and regards,
Michael
Klang, Malaysia

[RonWill]

Got a question on hatching period, read that Australe takes about 12-14 days to hatch on water, how many days will it be on wet peat?

Michael, if IN water, hatching for AUS is 7days~2months (for 'sleeping eggs').

GAR eggs, incubated in damp mop within a sealed (tie with rubberband) bag, is 2 weeks. On wet peat, between 12days~1month.

[Michsoon]

Thanks for the advise Ron.

Have wetted all of them this evening, checked and found a couple of frys wiggling around. Hopping for more wiggling frys soon.

Regards