Ap. (Chromaphyosemion) bitaeniatum Ekondo Titi

[whuntley]

Is it true that generally, eggs in peat develope slower for this family?

The rate of development of all eggs seems to be slowed in higher oxygen environments, such as resting in peat. Personally I have never encountered one where development was speeded by that alone.

For eggs truly in diapause (real annuals, usually) hatch can be delayed a long time until the oxygen level drops with respect to the CO2 level (i.e., they are dunked in water). I have even forced the hatch of some stubborn eggs by sticking an airstone from my DIY CO2 system in their hatching container. WOW! It works and quickly! The gas transport is very pressure dependent, so some have immersed the eggs in a jar with a slightly-loosened lid into a very deep tank. I have never done this, but am told it is most effective.

Air contact slows development, but semi-annuals, like most Fp. will eventually either hatch in the peat or die and go away.

Some things that speed development and make for earlier hatch include:

Drier peat,

warmer,

suffocation.

That last one is definitely not recommended, but I have done it by taping Petri dishes closed and not opening them often enough. Bags can breathe and are safer.

Wright

[TyroneGenade]

I'm going to have to go counter point on Wright this time...

I think higher O2 accelerates development in the case of annuals and non-annuals need constant high O2 to develop (just take a look at lampeyes and cool killies).

Development is slowed by lower O2 and higher solute levels associated with "drying out."

An example: LIN eggs take about 10 to 14 days to develop. Add some salt (1 -2 tsp per L I think... the thread is somewhere in the killietalk archives I think) and you can delay development and hatching. Mach Fukada uses this trick to ship Pseudomugil cyanodorsalis and furcata all around the world. He takes the salt right up to sea water level.

This places the egg under osmotic stress and the cellular machinary grinds to a halt. Oxygen is however still very important for egg survival.

Eggs shipped in a peat slurry inside breather bags fare much better than eggs in the thick poly bags or closed vials.

As the eggs sit in the peat slurry more and more peat tannins etc... leach into the water. These compounds need to associate with water to dissolve and so the water potential is reduced and you can actually have the eggs enter into a "drought induced diapause" like annuals. This applies even to Pseudoepiplatys annulatus.

Eggs shipped in peat tend to take much longer the hatch. On several occasions I actually gave up. One batch of A. elberti took almost 4 weeks to hatch after spending 2 weeks in the post. The trick that got them to develop: water changes on the peat slurry. Fresh water stimulates development. This is the case with Nothos as well.

2 weeks back 20 1 month old furzeri eggs were placed into fresh water. Today they have well formed embryoes and I expect in 1 to 2 weeks they will be ready to hatch.

How do I get them to hatch? Oxygen tablets.

tt4n

[whuntley]

I'm going to have to go counter point on Wright this time...

My apologies, Tyrone. I fear we are talking apples and oranges, here.

I was considering only the differences between emersed and immersed eggs.

Oxygen has very low solubility in water, so eggs in damp peat in contact with air are in an enormously higher oxygen environment. The higher solubility of CO2 in water means that the relative balance of O2 to CO2 normally is then toward CO2 when immersed.

I agree that eggs that are starved for air in vials and thick bags do not do at all well. They likely are usually killed by their own ammonia, tho.

I remember sending you some dead eggs, once, because our kind intermediary decided repackaging was in order. Grrrr!

If you re-read my post, and recognize that eggs in water are in low oxygen, compared to in damp peat, we aren't all that far apart.

I'll make you a bet that increased CO2 in hatch water will force hatch quicker and more surely than oxygen tablets (who knows what those really add). I have never used the latter, so could be surprised.

Wright

[RonWill]

... and now we return to our regularly scheduled programme

Yesterday, while changing tank water for the 'Ekondo Titi', I decided to pop a reversed trio into the photo tank for some quick pics.

Remember, folks, that these are 'fright colors', nowhere near what I can describe... now imagine when they're really comfortable and happy.

Deborah, this one's for you... a good reason to get off ya butts and get these into your tanks!

The rest of the pics are here.

Tyrone, yes, these are beginning to look more like chromaphyosemion than my bitaeniatum 'Ijebu Ode'.


BTW, did Tim say anything about the 'Ekondo Titi'?).

[keehoe]

Ron, I am sure you have a long waiting list for their egg. Just in case i don't receive the fish i am suppose to get. Can put me on waiting list also?

[RonWill]

Just in case i don't receive the fish i am suppose to get. Can put me on waiting list also?

Because you have already ordered that species (without telling me <frown>), you're already on the queue. Don't worry. Just let me know how you get along when the egg-parcel comes in.

(sorry I can't use those darn smilies... I'm working without a mouse! <smirk>)

[Piscesgirl]

Deborah, this one's for you... a good reason to get off ya butts and get these into your tanks!

It's the weather -- I promise! I'm waiting for it to warm up (in fact we had an ice storm this weekend). The tank is ready!

[TyroneGenade]

Where is the franticly-drueling-lustful emoticon? How can I properly convey my sentiments without the proper emoticon!!! Arrrg! "They are splendid. Splendid!!! I must have them!" Now why can't we encapsulate that in an emtoicon???

No, Tim has not yet replied but that is normal. I think I've wonderred into his spam filter. Can't imagine why...

Now, adding to the confusion, this looks more like a volcanum type...

tt4n

[Shae]

They are absolutley stunnin, if you ever get an excess of those, i would love to get hold of some. Im going to do abit of reading up on MAF and customs, see if there are any loop holes

Shae

[keehoe]

One more thing to add to Ron's comment: You should consider slowly acclimate the egg to you normal room light/ brightness. The egg were in total darkness for a few days before you open up the cover and stunt them with bright light. (Especially for those eye-up egg.)

People here use strong flash light to catch frog (stunt the poor frog with flashlight). I suppose fry in the shell will too, if the fry fainted and forget to breath....)

Just my $0.01 worth ( newbie's comment only worth 1 cent )

Ron, i am also hatching the species. But i am soaking the seller's email to get the fish now as he have not responded to my mail ever since i confirm the quantify and species (and pay of course). If he really deliver the fish when i am out of town, I will ask my friend pass the parcel to Kho. You see what you can help me with, OK?

Chrom. splendopleure "Tiko" also nice. Anyone keeping that?

Come accross this picture while visiting some taiwan aqua website. Just manage to find Ron's mouse. It is "clicking" another mouse.

** Link removed by Mod

[TyroneGenade]

Firstly, that is a hamster and I think such bestiality is most out of place on this forum. (I see we don't have a prudish emoticon either.)

2nd, for a beginner you are doing very well. Most beginners would not of got N. orthonotus to where you have them! You should feel quite accomplished.

The fry inside eyed-up do respond to light. I think it is in Scheel somewhere that he states that exposure to light will stimulate the fry. It will twitch inside the egg and its heart will begin to beat very fast. So light may well stress the unhatched fry.

Regards

[zmzfam]

Firstly, that is a hamster and I think such bestiality is most out of place on this forum. (I see we don't have a prudish emoticon either.)

And I totally agree with Tyrone. The link shall be removed and I take it that you'll be removing the image from the album pronto.

Be sensitive to others' feelings even though it is meant to be light-hearted.

[RonWill]

You should consider slowly acclimate the egg to you normal room light/ brightness

Kee Hoe, most of the collected eggs are stored in the 'utility closet' (outside the apartment) and in the dark. When they're ready for dunking, the hatching containers are left in ambient lighting and I don't have a habit of shining flash/torch light at them.

i am also hatching the species

Sorry, but I don't quite understand... what are you hatching now?

...soaking the seller's email to get the fish now

okay... no wonder you're not getting fry and it must be something new... to ship eggs via email (ah... is that the joke of the day )

If he really deliver the fish when i am out of town, I will ask my friend pass the parcel to Kho. You see what you can help me with, OK?

Sure thing but wait till you receive the statement for B&B in my 'Fry-care centre'

Chrom. splendopleure "Tiko" also nice. Anyone keeping that?

See here.

Just manage to find Ron's mouse. It is "clicking" another mouse

Drats The link was removed before I had a chance to see how mice do their 'clicking' (darned... I was getting dirty thoughts! ) Can someone email me the link or something?

[keehoe]

Ok Ok, sorry guys. I did went throught a lot of thought before posting the picture. I though since i have seen picture of killies mating dance so hamster learning how to you MS-Windows by clicking user-friendly mouse is acceptable. I admit i was wrong.

Yesterday just collected the peat that was place in the tank with one pair of Notho Otho. and i estimated around 20 eggs inside. I just wrap up the peat with the eggs and put it aside for wind-dry over night and seal it this morning.

So, YangYang, Fish, fry and egg of Notho. Othonotus in Singapore.

Ron, what i mean by soaking the emails is ------> Flooding the seller with emails. He have just responded not sure if because of my annoying flood or came back from other busisness. I soak the email and get adult fish not fry. More productive?

Ron, i am getting fish from the seller. Not egg. Once i get more familiar with the species. Might get some egg in also. I think eggs is better in quality (genetically speaking). Hopfully they are from the best pair.

Airline charge 10% for infant only. Ron can consider a big discount for fry?

Thanks Tyron, my success in the species is due to

1. Beira98 eggs from Loh that taught me a lot of lesson.

2. The species itself is Fx (no more than 3 generation from the wild caught). Consider 2 month incubation and 1 month to mature. Collected march'04

3. Lampeyes Eggs bought from oversea. Corrected a lot of the careless behaviour.

4. Last but not lease, Kho visit to my place to identify the killer snail

[TyroneGenade]

Ok Ok, sorry guys. I did went throught a lot of thought before posting the picture. I though since i have seen picture of killies mating dance so hamster learning how to you MS-Windows by clicking user-friendly mouse is acceptable. I admit i was wrong.

(Don't know, maybe this post should go under a different section?)

I was not personally offended. I thought it was just a bit quirky. The "bestiality" bit came from the inter-species procreational act... didn't mean much by it. But if there are kids accessing the forum I'm pretty sure somewhere there is a parent in a tight spot. Dismiss this little picture as just a clicking hamster or explain that this isn't really funny and strip the kids of their innocence.

Your point about dancing fish is spot on. I'm often---in jest---accused of watching too much fish-porn during lab hours.

In closing: that is not the proper way to treat your computer mouse. Fur will quickly stuff up the mechanism.

[stormhawk]

Hi all,

Took some shots of the Ekondo Titi in a photo tank back at Ron's place last night. Here's one for viewing.

Ron, I hope I did justice to the Ekondo Titi.

[keehoe]

I prefer skinny Chrom. class fish. I think they looks nicer. But for the case of Ron, i think these fish are too skinny (relatively speaking) especially when i am hoping to get some fish/ egg from his tank when he is not watching.

I think his new tank really lets the fish showing its true colour. Compare with previous photo taken over scrach, chipoff plastic tank

[stormhawk]

Kee Hoe, oddly enough his fish were pretty fat when I was photographing them. Probably it doesn't seem that way but I can testify that they were really fat. In fact I think Ron just collected a few more fry from these fellas.

[keehoe]

The fish read too much magazine. In the current context, slim is good. The fish sure know how to pose.

[RonWill]

Dear all,
I'm pleased to say that 4 pairs of BIT Ekondo will soon make their way to Australia. No, unfortunately I haven't enough species to make up a goodwill box so I tinkered on Aquabid to recoup funds for feed and utilities.

Along with them are 15 pairs of SPL Moliwe, all are breeding sizes and ready to pop. It shouldn't be long before our Aussie friends get hold of them. Good luck, mates!
[BTW, the buyer has the necessary import papers and a licenced transhipper. Folks from AU and NZ need get their act together for legal shipments!]

Also, one Ekondo pair safely arrived at Kent, UK, and I'm really thrilled. They are one of my favorite Chrom's and their beauty alone deserves more dedication.

A brief look back...
Young and 'garang' (gung-ho)

Maturing and seeking mates (Photo taken by Jian Yang)

One nip off caudal extension that never recovered. Battle scar, if you may.

Magnificent, even when relaxed.

The female is just as colorful, albeit subtle.

Most of the images were touched up, only to erase reflections and watermarks from the photo tank. Colors are real, fright coloration actually, and not enhanced. Compare the following pics and decide for yourself, which you like better. BTW, the pair are in the same tank at the same time, not digitally manipulated.


Personally, less distractions = better appreciation. Enjoy!