Chromaphyosemion splendopleure Tiko

[RonWill]

This is a little confusing; don't blame anyone but I hope the more experienced killie-keepers can chip in.

CK, the Tiko population was received from David Mikkelsen as Aphyosemion (Chromaphyosemion) "Tiko Green" - Orange Phenotype, and I've maintained/distributed them as such. Some say to have Green & Orange is confusing, so to avoid confusion, it was simplified to "Tiko" Orange pheno.

I think there was a mention (somewhere in the forum) pointing out the color variation between the two but as far as I'm aware, the "Green" form was never imported.

BTW, if David is with us and still into killie keeping, I'm sure we'll all be glad to hear from you.

[CK Yeo]

Ronnie, the "tiko green" was obtained from the shop you consign your fishes to. You mean to say it was not from you? Then what was the fish I had earlier?

ck

[timebomb]

I don't know if I should tell you all my experiences with the Tiko. I feel a bit guilty about what I did to the fish but what happened in my tank could be useful information to some of you. So here goes:

I got about 20 Tiko fry from Ronnie a couple of months ago. They ate well and grew fast. After a couple of weeks, I transferred the whole lot to a heavily planted 3 feet tank. The fish looked healthy and I had high hopes that I will be collecting many eggs.

But things were not to be. Not long after they went into the 3 feet tank, I saw something terrible. One of the females showed a huge bulge in her stomach. It was the glugea thing again. My heart sank when I saw that. I caught her out and threw her into the dustbin. A few days later, another female showed the same bulge in her stomach. I knew then there was no hope. The tank was infected.

A couple of weeks ago, not long after Wright left, I decided to disinfect the tank. There were still many healthy-looking Tiko's inside but I didn't want to keep any of them. Chances, I thought, they were probably infected with the disease also although they didn't show any symptoms.

I poured in one full cup of concentrated bleach into the tank. Immediately, the fish began to show signs of stress. I thought it wouldn't take long for them to die but they surprised me. Several fish resorted to climbing out of the water by jumping onto a huge patch of moss. I pushed the moss into the water but the Tiko's were far tougher than I thought. They dashed about the tank and practically stuck their heads out of the water by sticking their bodies to the sides. They just wouldn't die. I felt terribly guilty about putting them through such an ordeal. So I added another cup of bleach and waited.

About an hour later, all the fish were dead. The shrimps and snails were all dead too. I siphoned out all the water and replaced it with fresh water from the tap. I did this several times to ensure there was no trace of bleach in the water anymore. A few days later, all the plants turned white and died. The Crypts survived though. Amazing!!

But what's even more amazing was this - Just a week or so ago, I thought I saw movement in the tank. I had left it empty all this while so I was surprised. I took a close look and was shocked by what I saw. There was a fry and on closer examination, I saw another 3. I wasn't sure then but the fry are much bigger now and I can confirm they are Tiko fry and there are at least 8 of them. Incredible, isn't it?

Somehow or other, although they were infected with the disease, the fish laid eggs in the tank. And incredibly, the eggs managed to survive the bleach treatment. Two full cups of concentrated bleach in a 3 feet tank and left to soak for more than an hour, yet the eggs survive! The thing I can tell you - I really respect this fish. He may not be the most beautiful Killie but he's sure one survivor.

Loh K L

[Scott_sg]

Just for you Ronnie

Mine seem to be looking a bit more green than the other pics, but that might be my lighting as i have a mix of daylight and the pink plant light.

These two were displaying to each other for at least an hour, nice to watch, i just need to get a bit more into the photo side of things.

KL, if you want to kill fish nicely, put them in a container and put them in the freezer, or use ice etc. The cold will basically put them to sleep. You can also use clove oil - it is good for toothaches as well. Either way it has to be better than chlorox-ing them.

Oh i think i figured out the gallery - after some fooling about.

Scott

PS How come I keep getting "no post mode specified" ? Is it a time out thing?

[Scott_sg]

Hmmm I am still not sure if i have the album thing right either..

Oh and I forgot to ask. What should these be labelled as? I just put Tiko on the pics as that seemed easy. Orange red green etc, I dont know at all. I have no idea and reading back through the thread I am totally confused.

Scott.

[selena]

................i 'm going to call SPCA.

[Happy Camper]

I am sorry to hear about the ordeal with your fish Loh K L, what a terrible thing to put yourself and the fish through. I do not envy that situation.

I lost 2 male gardneris and a couple of females not so long ago. The females looked as if they were BULGING with eggs, a few days later the same thing happened to the males. I was perplexed about what it could be, is this glugea? What is it exactly? Is it harmful to humans? Is there a cure for it? Does this affect other fish aswell or only Killies? I am now officially worried for my fish as I use most of the buckets and hoses etc on all my tanks!!!!!

I hope this does not turn into a very costly mistake for me!

Unker Loh, you better be wary of those eggs I just sent to you just in case, heads up

[hwchoy]

Ronnie, your Tiko fish refuses to pose as per the Mbonge.

This is a quick shot of the bugger flaring at the back of the tank, where lighting is bad and worst the caudal is obscured. But better than nothing for now, plus the dorsal is flaring nicely. I notice quite a bit of differences in the colour details amongst the pictures posted here, especially the purple spots in the dorsal (refer to CK's pix).

What is the locality info for Tiko?

[timebomb]

Cameron,

I can't be certain that it's Glugea but click here to see some scary pictures. I don't know if it's harmful to humans but I think you're safe. Rush to the doctor though if a bulge shows up in your stomach

It seems the disease strikes only the females but that could be due to the fact the symptoms are clearer on females because of their less-colourful bodies. I can't offer much help on the disease as I'm at a loss myself what causes it and how it's spread from tank to tank. If it's as infectious as some hobbyists make it out to be, then why is it we don't see or hear of Glugea more often? Frankly, as far as I know, I'm the only hobbyist in Singapore who has reported seeing this disease in his tanks. What you can do though:

Remove and destroy infected fish immediately. Isolate infected tanks. That was the reason I didn't want to catch the fish out to euthanise them. I didn't want my nets to be infected or run the risk of any water droplets from the infected tank falling into another tank. However, these are just stop-gap measures. The only way to be sure, they say, is to disinfect everything. But that would be too much work and too big a setback for me. If I have to disinfect everything and kill all my plants and fish, I would seriously think about giving up on the hobby altogether.

Loh K L

[RonWill]

Incredible, isn't it?

Absolutely! Funny also that I should think of decapsulated killie eggs!

Kwek Leong, hopefully you've zapped the Glugea. Not sure how contagious it is but to be on the safe side, I'd suggest keeping a tab on your nets, scoops, moving plants around, etc.

Scott,
The academics insist that Chromaphyosemion is not elevated to full status yet so to avoid confusion, let it be Aphyosemion (Chromaphyosemion) splendopleure Tiko - Orange Phenotype and thanks for the update.

[RonWill]

Tiko fish refuses to pose as per the Mbonge

Choy, that pair is yours to keep, so you have all the time in the world for another photo-shoot. Don't worry, it's still a nice pic in my books

What you have is a fully-matured pair, when the orangy tinge becomes obvious. CK's lot are sub-adults and Scott's group are just older juvenile, so yes, there will be color discrepancy at each stage (which got me worried initially). Sorry, no idea of locale details.

[Happy Camper]

I can't be certain that it's Glugea but click here to see some scary pictures. I don't know if it's harmful to humans but I think you're safe.

Those are indeed scary pics
Thanks for the link, although my females that passed on were huge, they did not have the round bumps as shown in these pics, so I think it was something else that infected my fish. Since these fish died there have been no other fish in the same tank showing any symptoms, of course I have about 10 female gardneris and no males left now, typical !

Rush to the doctor though if a bulge shows up in your stomach

I am starting to get a bit of a bulge but I think that's more from the beer drinking than anything else

Remove and destroy infected fish immediately. Isolate infected tanks. That was the reason I didn't want to catch the fish out to euthanise them.

Oh, now I get it, and here I thought you were being cruel and heartless

If I have to disinfect everything and kill all my plants and fish, I would seriously think about giving up on the hobby altogether.

Ditto.

Thanks for the information Loh K L, so does this glugea seem to infect mostly Nothobranchius species or is it across the board? Is the fish an intermediate host for the parasite? If so I wonder where the parasites final destination is, where does it need to be to complete it's lifecycle? The lives of parasites are so extraordinarily complex and fascinating it blows me away.

Hopefully this does not infect any more of your wee fish.

Kind regards
Cameron

[hwchoy]

Tiko fish refuses to pose as per the Mbonge

Choy, that pair is yours to keep, so you have all the time in the world for another photo-shoot. Don't worry, it's still a nice pic in my books

What you have is a fully-matured pair, when the orangy tinge becomes obvious. CK's lot are sub-adults and Scott's group are just older juvenile, so yes, there will be color discrepancy at each stage (which got me worried initially). Sorry, no idea of locale details.

thanx Ronnie, will have to make sure they get fed. However, the original female got hantamed and is missing the caudal fin. I am now having a replacement from the selling tank.

[whuntley]

I don't know if I should tell you all my experiences with the Tiko. I feel a bit guilty about what I did to the fish but what happened in my tank could be useful information to some of you. So here goes:

I got about 20 Tiko fry from Ronnie a couple of months ago. They ate well and grew fast. After a couple of weeks, I transferred the whole lot to a heavily planted 3 feet tank. The fish looked healthy and I had high hopes that I will be collecting many eggs.

But things were not to be. Not long after they went into the 3 feet tank, I saw something terrible. One of the females showed a huge bulge in her stomach. It was the glugea thing again.

snip...[What KL did to the poor fish!]

Loh K L

A few bloviations on this subject. [Emeriti, of course.]

Most killies seem to be able to get Glugea, but the ability of the cysts to stand a long period in damp peat makes outbreaks very unpredictable in Nothos. Robert Nhan found that spooning out babies as soon as they hatch, and immediately putting them in uninfected water seemed to work as a way to break the cycle.

Dr. Barry Cooper, a veterinary pathologist, has found that the tank problem is readily cured with antihelmentics, such as flubendazole. Once infected, though, the fish probably cannot be cured and will be a source of infection for others. Dump swollen fish, clean tanks with flubendazole to save plants, etc., and watch carefully for new infections for a while.

There is no longer any need to tear down whole fishrooms as was once done.

Chlorox bleach may not be a sure tank cure, BTW. Some bacteria, with a waxy outer coating (such as Mycobacterium marinum) cannot be killed with a simple oxidizer, like chlorine. Acetone, or other strong aromatics are needed for a real disinfection, alternating with bleach. Alcohol may be pretty effective, for most, if it dissolves wax.

Unfortunately, I have to go to Mexico to get the only really aquarium-safe alcohol -- ethanol. Our ancient prohibition laws make it illegal here, or highly taxed when diluted way down with water (aka vodka). Many other alcohols are toxic or can contain very toxic "denaturizers." Isopropanol (Propanol 2) can be OK if you don't use the kind of rubbing alcohol loaded with lanolin o/e. Getting that oil out can be as hard as getting rid of the bugs.

Wright

[hwchoy]

Sorry, no idea of locale details.

Turns out these days you can find Tiko and Mbonge on Google Earth!

[CK Yeo]

I have some pretty drab males and all seems to have some slight colour variations from each other. The female also. At one point of time, I was wondering if all are the same species. The one I took happened to be one that flares the most. No colour manipulations in case you are wondering.

Does anyone knows how would the biotope of this fish (or killifish in general) looks like?

ck

I notice quite a bit of differences in the colour details amongst the pictures posted here, especially the purple spots in the dorsal (refer to CK's pix).

[stormhawk]

CK, while I don't have an exact image for the splendopleure's native habitat, see this page for a rough look at how Aphyosemion ahli's habitat looks like:

Aphyosemion ahli

Scroll down and you'll see an image of a rainforest pool or stream.

[hwchoy]

CK, while I don't have an exact image for the splendopleure's native habitat, see this page for a rough look at how Aphyosemion ahli's habitat looks like:

Aphyosemion ahli

Scroll down and you'll see an image of a rainforest pool or stream.

Interestingly the page says Aphyosemion is an Indo-Malayan and African genus. I don't recall any of them ever ranging outside of Africa.

Also those white flowers in the pools look very interesting, any idea what plants those are?

[hwchoy]

got him in another flaring pose, but I cannot understand why his fins are getting tattered. he chases the female around, who also have slight fin damage, and the only other inhabitants are two Schistura loaches who stays on the substrate. both are happily feeding on ADP.

[RonWill]

Loaches!!?? Heh, you obviously have not seen their mischief when the lights go down. Choy, how big are those Schistura?