Display tank

[hooru]

Hi, I am relatively new to killies. I became interested in these beautiful fish after reading the articles in the May 04 TFH .Ever since seeing them, I have wanted these fish in a display tank. I want to keep these fish badly, but dont paticularly want to breed them at this time. I am considering buying N. rachovii marromeu, Aphys. elberti, Aphys. geryi, Aphys. ogonese, or any Fp. gardneri, depending on the advice i recieve here and availability. I don't mind keeping a (breeding)pair or two, but i would like to know how much I will have to do in terms of cleaning eggs out of the tank/gravel. At the moment, I do not plan on giving specialty care to any fry that hatch naturally. Any advice is appreciated. Different species? Bad idea all together? Am I bothering you yet?
Thanks all.
PS: I am planning on using a 10-gallon tank that already has 3 bleeding heart tetras and a small flame gourami.
PPS: Just saw someone named killinewb posting, no affiliation.

[RonWill]

Whether you're a 'noob', 'newb' or 'newt', any friend of a killifish is a friend of mine

Welcome, Jay, to the forum and I hope we'll continually have new topics to keep you revisiting us.

The 10gal can hold quite a few pairs of killies and if you're going for a moderately planted permanent setup, I'll suggest going for non-annuals.

A few pairs of Aphyosemion elberti, geryi or ogonese should do fine but Fundulopanchax species can mature into 10cm specimens. I'm inclined to go with elberti, now that my own pairs have colored beautifully.

If you have a generous wad of java moss or other fine-leafed plants, with regular feeding, you're likely to find young fry and if the tank is stable with infusoria, the young will need little 'special care'. Naturally, you won't see many of them since they'd be hiding and tetras will most likely predate on them.

Whatever you opt for, do try to avoid different killies from the same species, to avoid hybridization, and go with low maintenance... it'll keep you sane over the long haul

[hooru]

Ronnie, thank you for the advice. After seeing the pictures of your wonderful Aphyosemion elberti, I will try to find a pair or two on Aquabid. The N'tui look great, and good luck on your elberti population.
Thanks again.

[stormhawk]

Hi Jay and first of all, welcome to the forum.

For your choices of species, they're generally not meant for beginners.

Aphyosemion elberti isn't the toughest of all species.
Scriptaphyosemion geryi can be tough as well.
Aphyosemion ogoense generally requires cooler temperatures.

If you have no intention of breeding and wish to prevent the additional work of collecting eggs, just get a few male Aphyosemion australe or Nothobranchius guentheri perhaps just to get a feel of the hobby.

If you're willing to start collecting eggs, make a floating breeding mop and leave it inside the aquarium. Check the mop every weekend for eggs. Don't try siphoning the eggs out, it can be really impractical.

With regards to your current setup, with the tetras around, the fry stand no chance of survival if they happen to hatch in the tank.

[hooru]

Hi Jay and first of all, welcome to the forum.

For your choices of species, they're generally not meant for beginners.

Aphyosemion elberti isn't the toughest of all species.
Scriptaphyosemion geryi can be tough as well.
Aphyosemion ogoense generally requires cooler temperatures.

Jianyang, I apologize, but it is late Thursday here and it has been a long week . Im not sure whether or not you are supporting Ronnie's suggestion of Aphyosemion elberti or not. Thanks for the advice and any clarifications.

[stormhawk]

I'm neither supporting nor opposing to the idea of the elberti being the choice species here but they can become the target of the tetras' harassment. Since tetras can be fin nippers, a magnificent male elberti can be turned into tatters if the tetras have their way.

Nonetheless they are a showpiece species which are worthy of any tank, provided that they are given the proper care. Finding a pair on Aquabid at the moment is pretty feasible and most of them will ship just to the States so you're pretty safe to begin with.

That said, although they're not considered a beginner species but nobody says a beginner can't start with a more difficult species. Just that they cost alot more than a beginner species to start with and they might give you a hard knock if they get a little stressed and decide to take a leap of faith out of the tank.

If you're willing to accept the risks then the elberti would be the way to go. IMHO, elberti males usually put the ogoense and geryi in the back seat where colour and pattern are involved.

[hooru]

Thanks for the input. If i can find a reasonably priced pair or two, I think I will start with the elberti because my tetras occasionaly badger the gourami, but all of his fins are intact.
I look forward to discussions with everyone here and developing my knowledge of the hobby. Both of you have been very gracious in helping me.

I also plan on keeping all of my fish securly under the lid. I have seem plenty of beautiful specimens turned to dry husks at the LFS.

[stormhawk]

Yes its best to have a proper fitting lid on the tank. Some species are adept at finding the smallest space to squeeze through. I don't know how they do it but give them a small space to pass and they'll jump right straight out of the tank.

Not a good thing to find a dried fish on the floor. Here in Singapore we have dried anchovies which the Malays call as "ikan bilis" and is commonly found in some local dishes. If you found a dried husk of a fish it would be akin to it being an "ikan bilis".

They're crunchy though.

[TyroneGenade]

Hello Jay,

You may want to go see this thread.

Aphyosemion elberti, Scripaphyosemion geryi and Fp. gardneri would do well in such a tank pictured above on their own. They will probably spawn quite happily and establish a self sustaining colony in the tank that you will only need to feed and change the water for.

You may want to consider some of the Chromaphyosemion species though as they are spectacular, don't shy from the light and are always eager to put on a show.

You tank will need a very snug fitting lid.

Regards

[hooru]

After spending all my spare time today researching species, I think am going to start with Fp. gardneri, due to their hardiness(I have bad luck putting new fish in small tanks). I do not have a particular variation in mind, but there is a pair of P-82 up for auction that I am considering buying. That reminds me, I was browsing the killie auctions a few days ago and there were over 20 fish up for sale, now there are 6 that have stayed there since yesterday. Did the site crash again? Also, there is a website http://www.geocities.com/killiesbyru...lablefish.html that has many gardneri for sale. Has anyone had any experience with this site?
Thanks again for the help.

[timebomb]

After spending all my spare time today researching species, I think am going to start with Fp. gardneri, due to their hardiness(I have bad luck putting new fish in small tanks).

Good choice, Jay. The Fp. gardneri's are hardy Killies and even if you don't collect eggs, you should have plenty of them in no time. They are prolific egg layers and fry will appear regularly. As far as I know, adult gardneri's won't eat their fry.

Loh K L

[RonWill]

Jay, I'm glad you stumbled upon Ruth Warner's page and she is a very nice lady. Her late hubbie, Edward, was an avid and passionate killie-keeper and now, she's continuing the legacy. Get Ed's book* as well, "Success with Killifish", if you decide to buy something from her. (I have 2 copies!)

Since you're at that page, may I further recommend A. splendopluere Tiko Green and Ap. ogoense pyraphore. These are very nice fishes, have similar water requirement and will co-habitat peacefully. Furthermore, if you manage to breed them, I'm almost positive that others will want to trade/swap species. Just so you know I'm not kidding, put me in queue for their eggs! <wink>

That said, I've not gotten any fishes from Ruth but there were two 'nearly completed transactions'. There was an order I had confirmed, just before I almost lost my job and had to take a brief haitus from the hobby. The second was a joint-order with a fellow forumer, who had to pull out last minute, due to spousal issues.

To this day, I feel bad to have dropped both transaction abruptly (especially when she doesn't normally ship overseas) but if you get to buy from her, just tell her I said, "Hello from Singapore" and that I hope that she is well.

* Ed dedicated "Success with Killifish" to Ruth, in which it said, "To my wife, Ruth, who has given up many things in life because of my fascination and devotion to tropical fish".
(IMHO, the dedication says heaps about the lady!)

Jay, you're dealing with good people... go for it!. Deborah, you can consider the SPL 'Tiko' too!

[hooru]

Ronnie, i saw A. splendopluere in the AKA gallery, and they look great. I have now changed my mind for probably the dozenth time or so this week on which fish to start with(A. splendopluere Tiko Green).

Eggs in/on damp peat suck big time, often under 30%. Whichever way it's delivered, dunk ASAP in aged aquarium water, as these will pop without warning.

I am now considering breeding a tankful of killies(sucked in that fast :P ). Would I need to use a tray or dry peat or something else to hatch? Wish I knew better questions to ask.
(Edit: Emailed Ruth about a possible order)

[RonWill]

...Emailed Ruth about a possible order

You're a good 'noob', Jay

With 700+ odd described species of killifishes, it's little wonder than anyone can be fickle-minded and no surprise that new tanks and critter-keepers sprout from 'nowhere'. We've all gone through the same dilemma... so many killies, so little tanks!

On your pending A. splendopluere 'Tiko', I believe that would be a good choice. They're low in 'fuel consumption', displays readily and aren't too difficult to handle (at least in my case). If my 'Tiko' doesn't wet the corners of your lip, I'll have to come up with more rainbowy pics!

Eggs in/on damp peat suck big time, often under 30%. Whichever way it's delivered, dunk ASAP in aged aquarium water, as these will pop without warning.

I am now considering breeding a tankful of killies(sucked in that fast :P ). Would I need to use a tray or dry peat or something else to hatch? Wish I knew better questions to ask

There's no such thing as a stupid question (if you've already done the legwork) and if you have doubts, just ask... we're here for you.

About hatching non-annual eggs on receipt, whether they're packed in peat or in breather bags, I would dunk them in a container with shallow 1" aquarium/aged water and a clump of java moss. Try not to introduce any snails at this point, even those 'egg-proof' snails, and Malayan Trumpet Snails (MTS) are known to predate on fish eggs.

The infusoria from the java moss will tide the little fellas over a few days until they're ready for newly hatched brine shrimps. Once all the fry are free swimming, you can increase the water level and pop in a few ramhorn snails to scavage for uneaten food, which would otherwise foul up the water.

Live foods, eg. daphnia, grindal worms, tubifex, etc, and regular water changes encourage good growth and when these sub-adults start coloring up, then we'll talk about sex

BTW, I've been thinking...

Local shipping within continental USA doesn't cost an arm (unlike us poor fellas) and Ruth's prices are decent. So instead of raising up fry, why not get a few pairs and work from there? If you float a spawning mop, chances are you'll find eggs (when the breeders are ready) and you can still experience fry-care. No?

[Shae]

Fp. Gardneri are sposed to be hardy huh?? I had some Gold nigeriatums and so far they have been the hardist killie for me to keep, i lost the only male 3 days after getting him, he just dropped dead, so gave the female away.

However i will voice my opinion here and say to KilliNoob, that any keeper not willing to give special attention to there killies, should not have them! I Dont think your attitude towards killies is a good one, Yes you like them, "ooh they look cool" but your not willing to put in the effort! That is exactly what happened here in NZ, We lost most of our species because people had exactly the same attitude as you. I dont mean to put you off Killies, and i dont know other peoples opinions towards killies in any other country, but if your not going to breed them then dont keep them.

Shae

[hooru]

Shae, I am sorry if I have offended you in any way, but if you would read my last post, you would see that I am now planning on breeding killies to some degree. I may not want a killie room, but I do not think that makes me an invalid hobbyist. I am sorry for the lack of interest in or care of killes in New Zealand, but I don't see what this has to do with me keeping a pair. Also, in my most recent post, I stated that I was now interested in A. splendopluere of the Tiko variety instead of Fp. Gardneri. Sorry that your male nigeriatum died so quickly. I myself have brought home several fish only to watch them die after being put in the tank

To no one in particular, are A. splendopleure top only breeders? I have a few small, fine leafed plants for fry to hide in. Would the best way to hatch be to collect eggs in a surface mop and hatch in a tray, or could I just let the splendopleure lay eggs in the available plants and hope that they will hatch?

(Edit: Doh! Just read Ronnie's breeding article in the FAQ again..... Advice still appreciated though)

Ronnie,
Ruth said "Thanks for the greetings from Ronny Lee,tell him hi back,please.One often wonders,what happens to people,after you don't hear from them anymore,I am glad he is doing fine."
I am planning on buying a single pair to start with and maybe purchase more/different pairs from there.

[Shae]

It was not aimed at you Killienoob, its more like me just telling it how it is and were i stand in this hobby. I do not expect you to know anything about NZ killie situation nor did you offend me.

One thing to remember with non-annuals is they spawn were they want, it could be top, bottom or midrift of the tank, there is no set area, i have found that even with the same species they will spawn in different areas.

For my non-annuals i do a very long mop hang it from the top of the tank and let it touch the bottom and fray out about 2 inches. I always have some kind of floating plant for the occasional fry and it also tends to discourage jumping. Usually Indian fern or Anubus Lily.

Shae

[Shae]

BTO I am Glad to see you have decided to breed. Dont forget the "special attention"

Shae

[hooru]

Sorry for the mis-understanding and thanks for the info.
If it doesn't touch a nerve, I would like to know what happened with killies in NZ.
I'm now glad i didn't try to start a flame war with you over a miscommunication. Hopefully I can help the killie interest in my area grow ( or at least not hurt it )

[RonWill]

Shae, Jay and all those in between.
In my time of fish keeping, I realized that there are 2 main groups of hobbyists; some just want nice fishes in their community tanks and others, who dive deeper to know more and often go on to breed them.

I belong to the latter and love it, despite being called 'nuts' and 'crackpot' (I much prefer 'passionate' ).

Killifishes, by their vivid colors, can be addictive and it's only a matter of time and education, before the casual hobbyist realizes what he or she is missing out by not breeding them.

It is also healthy to express opinions that doesn't reflect your own and so long as the exchange is kept civil, we all can learn from it. Sometimes, a different perspective can be refreshing or lead to new ways of doing things. (I'm glad the miscommunication is ironed out before I had the chance to bring out the cane! )

Jay, don't worry too much as to 'how' but first enjoy the killies. Have sufficient fine-leafed plants, moss and floating plants to make them feel comfy and they will 'do their thing'. Nowhere specific either but if you have better eyes than I, eggs are small and slightly amber in color.

Shae, it would be interesting to learn how the killie hobby has developed in NZ, how it began and where you think it's heading. Not only can I see your enthusiasm but feel your frustrations when others don't have the same passion. I'd like for you to start another thread about 'Killies in New Zealand', so that other forumers here can learn from you, the difficulties killie-keepers encounter or at least have a better understanding of what's going on.

This 'Display tank' thread will attract some attention from the casual hobbyists and they need all the encouragement we can muster, so it's best we do not deviate too far from it.