Is Tubiflex worm harmful during incubation?

[taygu]

I have finally managed to collect some eggs from the Notho.

And I need your expert advices, while feeding the fish with worms, some of the worm managed to got into the peat and now, I have peats, eggs and worm all mixed up. If I incubate the eggs together with the worms, is it ok? If not, do you know of ways to separate it?

Thanks,
Joe.

[CM Media]

Hi Joe,

Nice to here from you again.

I suggest you dry the peat and then pick the eggs out to incubate on a fresh peat. Usually, tubifex will deprive the eggs from oxygen and when it die, it'll damage the eggs.

[taygu]

Thanks Au, I managed to pick out some worms as it is easier to see compare to the fertilised eggs.

I have put all the peats and eggs into a ziploc bag and will keep the peat moist for 6 weeks before putting it back to the water. Is it ok?


Joe.

[CM Media]

Hi Joe,

I suggest you incubate the eggs for 8 weeks to get a better hatch. At 6 weeks, some eggs are not fully develop as yet.

[taygu]

thanks AU, will take your advice.

Hope to have good news to share..

[taygu]

Managed to collect some more eggs and the male is still chasing after the female, looks like I may be busy with collecting the eggs.

I am incubating the eggs in a cup with peats not in a plastic bag. Hope this is ok.

[stormhawk]

Hi Joe,

If the cup is not covered the peat may lose its moisture. That may result in very badly dried up eggs. It would be wise to harvest the peat, dry it a little and then bag it up in a plastic bag or something.

[TyroneGenade]

Hello,

Over the past few months I ahve received packets of peat full of bse cysts. This to me means that the fish were either very young or being fed lots of bbs and defecating the bbs (if over fed the shrimps are not properly digested) into the peat.

This bbs rots releasing ammonia and breeding bacteria in the peat. On wetting the peat there is then also the risk of a massive burst of ammonia that can kill fry and damage undeveloped eggs.

Consequently I have had very poor hatches from such peats---and never expected to.

The presence of tubifex in the peat is a problem and Au's suggestion is spot on. Remove the eggs ASAP to fresh peat.

Jianyang's suggest of securing the tub against futher tubifex entry is also good. Prevention is better than cure.

I would also like to add that you reduce your tubifex feeding. Feeding excess tubifex is not a good idea. Dead and rotting tubifex can cause serious health problems as shown in the "Help my australe females is dying" thread.

Good luck

[taygu]

you are right, with the cup not covered, the peat dried up and I hope it will not damaged the eggs. I quick moist it again.

The good news is, I saw new batch of eggs in the cup and on the tank floor. Will collect it and put it into a plastic bag, can it be completely seal using a ziploc bag?

[stormhawk]

Yes you can use a ziploc bag but make sure that there's some air in the bag. Open it every now and then to air the bag for a few seconds. This is to ensure that the eggs have a breath of fresh air to develop normally. Give the bag a good shake to ensure that the peat does not compact otherwise the eggs may die from suffocation or pressure caused by the compacting peat.

[CM Media]

Using plastic bags will not let you inspect the peat regularly. You need to pour the peat out for observation on the eggs development. Why don't you use thos plastic food containers where it's easily available as the picture attached below?


With this, you can just open the cover and browse though peat and you just need to this this to air the peat too...

I've being using this method of storing the eggs and with good results.

[stormhawk]

I tried this method once and it worked well too. Bad news is that sometimes the tiny mites get in if the covers are not properly fitting anymore.

Switched to plastic bags instead and I obtained pretty good results. I check the eggs once a week for signs of development. Look at a few eggs is enough then I repack the peat. If kept out too long the peat dries out and the eggs dehydrate so I usually just check for some eggs that I can easily spot.

In short there are many ways to go about doing the incubation. Every method has its ups and downs but once you start getting the hang of it a single method will work the best for you.

Some people use plastic bags tied up, some use ziploc bags, some use plastic containers and also others that have various other methods. As long as it works for you it will continue working.

[whuntley]

I have done it right and I have done it wrong.

Here are a few things I think are facts. YMMV.

Zip bags of any kind have been very unreliable for me, and the slightest trace of peat in the zipper allows rapid dessication. I no longer trust them. Many are too thick to allow oxygen, ammonia and CO2 to pass through. Freezer bags are a, for sure, no no. They are designed to block passage of oxygen to stop "freezer burn."

Fish bags, with a thickness of 1.5 or 2 mils (thousanths of an inch) do breath readily, but absolutely block water vapor, so they can remain sealed for a year without drying or being opened for aeration and the eggs will still hatch (if the species permits diapauses that long).

Petri dishes with vinyl tape can hold the moisture, but must be frequently opened to prevent suffocation. Darned nuisance, IMO. Same goes for small plastic food containers. They don't "breathe" and will kill the eggs every time if you forget the airing out just once or guess wrong on how often between openings.

Fluffed peat can be put in a fish bag and sealed by folding the top over several times. Taped closed with Scotch "Magic Tape" or equivalent, the tape provides a safe place to write with a permanent marker. It is easy to peel off if you want to open for inspection.

Writing directly on fish or egg bags with permanent marking pens can cause serious damage. The toluene (and even methylene chloride) solvent in the inks can go right through the plastic and is not good for either fish or eggs. Usually doesn't kill, it just makes them weak and sickly so they die of other causes.

'nough for now.

Wright

[taygu]

thanks for all the advice.

I now have 3 bags of the eggs with 1 in Ziploc and the other 2 in plastic bag. For the 2 plastic bag, I just fold the opening and used a paper clip to clip it. This is to keep the moist in the bag. For all 3 bags, I try open it to let fresh air in every day.

I check the eggs almost everyday, is there any special attention I need to pay? How do I know whether it is time to hatch it?

Thanks.
Joe.

[stormhawk]

It is best to leave the eggs alone and check once a week. I pack the eggs and peat in a loose bunch in a small plastic bag. I give the peat a good shake every now and then. This is to aerate the peat and prevent it from clumping together and forming a "dead zone". When this happens many eggs may fungus and rot off.

The eggs will be ready for wetting when you can see the eyes of the embryo fully formed. The iris should have a shiny look. This is what we call "eyed-up" eggs. Usually these are ready for hatching but some fry are stubborn and refuse to hatch out. That's when force-hatching comes into play, but usually this applies to non-annual eggs.

For annual eggs the proper wetting methods and a dose of oxygen tablets to the hatching tray will provide the proper "kick" to get those tiny fry to hatch out.

[taygu]

Hi JianYang,

Thanks a lot for all the advices.

Can I assume that the eyes will appear is about 8 weeks time?

Thanks
Joe.

[stormhawk]

If the required humidity and temperature are there, the eggs will develop normally and be ready for wetting in roughly 8 to 10 weeks time. You should check the eggs once a week if possible for any signs of development.

[taygu]

Hi JiangYang,

I have just wet the peat again about 2 days ago. This morning, I saw 2 tiny flies. I really need your advice on what should I feed the flies with.

Next worries are the tank is in my office and it means that coming weekend, I will not be able to ffed it. Need your advbice here too.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Joe

[timebomb]

I have just wet the peat again about 2 days ago. This morning, I saw 2 tiny flies. I really need your advice on what should I feed the flies with.

Joe, you meant fries, didn't you? In any case, fries would still be incorrect because the plural for fry is still fry. Conisdering the number of hobbyists who make such mistakes, I wonder if we should put this up as a sticky.

A fly is an insect. When you have many of them, they are flies.
A fry is a very young fish. When you have many of them, they are still fry because for some strange reason, the plural of fry is also fry, just like the plural of sheep is still sheep. What you eat at MacDonalds are known as French Fries but I'm not sure if you eat only one, would that be a French Fry? I guess we'll never know as nobody eats only one

That said, to raise Notho fry, you can feed them with baby brine shrimps or microworms. Do not worry if you can't feed for a day or 2. Fry or all fish for that matter don't die from starvation easily. They can live for quite a number of days without food. Just make sure your water isn't too clean and your fry should survive a weekend or 2 without food easily.

Loh K L

[taygu]

Hi Loh,

Sorry lah, too excited mah..

I saw more fry today, will be feeding them with BBS, is frozen BBS ok?