Gardneri, fry no color?

[groovay]

When I first bought my first pair they were under the name F.gardneri. I breed the pair, and the fry are now about 2-3 months old. They are pretty much the same size as how I bought there parents, but I don't see any color on them. I see just a bit red dots and bits of purplish-blue.

Today i bought another pair of gardneri fry, but they were under the name A.gardneri. They are way way smaller then my F.gardneri fry but the male has darn good coloring on him.

I've read somewhere that F.gardneri has change the name to A.gardneri, so why are my fry so dull when it's the same species? I feed my fry really good; live BBS and live micro worms.

Sry If I spelled anything wrong or broke any rules, I tried my best.
Thanks.
-Peter

[shortman]

but I don't see any color on them. I see just a bit red dots and bits of purplish-blue.
Today i bought another pair of gardneri fry, They are way way smaller then my F.gardneri fry but the male has darn good coloring on him.

Peter,

Would you mind take a digital image of the fry you have and the one you recently bought, so the the forumer could help and comment on the coloring of the fry.

Are both the fry same size? The water and the environment does make a different of the fry.

[groovay]

I bought the new fry from a auction in my city, it's about 1/2 of an inch and has full colors. All my fry(ones I breed) are about 1 and 1/4 but they don't have as much color as the new fry I bought.

I hatched my fries in a 5 gallon tank, got about 25 fry in all. The tank is bare bottom, I feed them with live food only. Do about 50% water change every 3 days, so the water should be sparkling. I just don't know why my big frys have so little compared the smaller fry I just recently bought.

-Peter

[zmzfam]

Peter,

have you considered the fact that your old frys can be females, while the newly bought frys are males? Males will tend to colour up - with the anal and dorsal fins showing the colouring - at the age of 1.5 to 2 mths if they are fed with live foods. At this age, live food should include tubifex worms and others and not restricted to bbs and microworms only.

My experience with gardneri indicates that they tend to be female heavy, but this could be attributed to other conditions such as ph of the water.

BTW, gardneri has been moved from the Aphyosemion group to the Fundulopanchax group, not the other way round.

[whuntley]

And they have never been a part of the Fundulus genus. That genus is abbreviated "F.," while Fundulopanchax is always "Fp." [The convention is that the single initial applies to the oldest named genus, with newer ones requiring more letters.]

Wright

[timebomb]

Peter,

I'm in agreement with Zulkifli. The fry that you bred are probably all females, hence the dull colours. I breed the Fp. gardneri in a planted tank and I get more females to males. I estimate the ratio to be about 10 females for every male.

Loh K L

[groovay]

wow, I never knew they were that bad with the ratio of males to females. Can anyone tell me the mile stones for these guys to color up? average months?

[TyroneGenade]

I hatched my fries in a 5 gallon tank, got about 25 fry in all. The tank is bare bottom, I feed them with live food only.

Peter, your problem is the bare bottom. Put in some gravel or sand and they should brighten up. the reflection on the bottom glass is maing them nervouse and less inclined to show colour.

What live food are you feeding?

tt4n

[RonWill]

wow, I never knew they were that bad with the ratio of males to females. Can anyone tell me the mile stones for these guys to color up? average months?

Peter,
I tried varying the pH in which the fry were raised and still it's "female-heavy", approx. ratio 8F:1M.

My Fp. GAR 'Lokoja', 'Basua' and 'Lafia' starts throwing colors at about an inch or 1.5 months. I'm not sure if it's diet-influenced since all my fishes get varied live foods but Tyrone has a point there. Dark tank bottom, be it gravel or painted, makes darker colored fishes.

I use a black adhesive-based paper (Oyama brand) on the underside of the tank bottom and now, even my Ap. australe EBT are pitch black.

If the styrofoam shows through the bare-bottom tank, most of the colors will appear washed out.

Of course, if your sub-adults are females, then it wouldn't make any difference... they'll still be drab.

BTW, all female gardneri are almost indistinguishable, so exercise caution not to get them mixed up.

[TyroneGenade]

I tried varying the pH in which the fry were raised and still it's "female-heavy", approx. ratio 8F:1M.

Been there too... Try soft or warmer water... It can become quite a problem. What do you do with 50 female GAR when you only have 6 males? Well... I wasn't that bad yet. I was roughly 10 males to 40 females at one stage. The last big brood I had raised was roughly 50:50... Go figure.

I always got roughly equal ratios for AUS.

regards

[groovay]

Thanks for everyone's reply, I'm going to try to put some sand into the tanks this week. I'll keep you all updated, once my girlfriend is down with my digital camera I'll try to post some pictures up.

[groovay]

Does anyone here have a picture time line of Fp. GAR?

-Peter

[RonWill]

Does anyone here have a picture time line of Fp. GAR?

-Peter

Peter,
What 'time line' are you referring to? Could it be a series of photographs that shows the development of the GAR from fry to adulthood? If it is, I'm afraid there isn't one because I used to search for such info (unless my search wasn't thorough enough)

I do have a few albums on GARs and usually, the dates are tagged to the images. Perhaps that might serve as vague reference?

Generally, and that depends on your water changes & feeding regime, GAR can reach 1cm in 2 weeks and 1inch, in approx a month, by which time, they can be roughly sexed out. Color development, especially in the caudal and anal fins, will show up by then.

IMHO and practice, I start sorting out the larger 1inch juveniles from their smaller siblings, so that none get overly harassed and food competition is more equal. (less developed/smaller fry are fed more generously with daphnia)

These and all that you do, will influence the 'time line'. Good luck with your search and if you come across something good, let us know.

[groovay]

Can you post up links to your GAR pictures? It would help me alot. Thank.

-Peter

[stormhawk]

Ron, perhaps its feasible to try and do a "timeline" set of pictures of some of the GAR fry?

[groovay]

Well I brought in an local killies expert to check out my killies, and he tells me that all my fry are female!!! Not one single male from both my batches, out of 56 fry not a single male.

Ok I have now a third batch, odd thing is 4 albino came out.

-Peter

[stormhawk]

Thats odd, but skewed sex ratios are pretty normal I guess. Yours is rather extreme though. Out of 56 fry there should usually be a few males, unfortunately you got an all-girls team. Water and temperature does play a role in determining the eventual gender of the growing fry, as will genetics, which I don't want to dwell on too much. If you really have no males in the batch, try to cross the father with one of his daughters. See what's the result. Alternatively, contact the source where you got your fish from in the first place and ask for the availability of excess males in his stock. Who knows he might be willing to swap males for your excess females.

Albinos appear from time to time. I guess your line has some albino genes in it. Which strain of the GAR is this?

[Raf]

Peter,

To avoid too skewed sex ratios, try to separate your next batch of fry in groups of 10 after birth. After 5-6 weeks the sexes are clearly defined and you should be able to distinguish if you have any males.
This method at least works for me.
For example, I raised my last batch of S. papilliferus fry in 2 groups of 50. Result: 4 males and 46 females. When I raised them in groups of 10 I obtained a sex ratio of 1:3
The same thing with S. boitonei: raising them in groups of 10 gave me 14 males and 40 females instead of all females.

best regards,

Raf

[groovay]

I think they should be Fundulopanchax Gardneri Misaje, they are a bit more purple and blue then other green variety.Sorry for the lack of names, I'm still a bit new .

-Peter

[stormhawk]

Its alright. The Misaje or Misage as it is sometimes spelt, is pretty nice.

If you lack males try getting them via the original seller you got the parents from. Alternatively try your luck in getting people to swap males for your excess females.