Healing fish that are badly affected by hot weather.

[keehoe]

Hi all, yesterday when i came home i realise that one of my Rachovii where acting strangly. It is struggling to swim normally and it looks tired.

I straight away put the fish into an airated small tank and mix half a tablet of O2 with water and pour it in. This morning when i woke up, the fish is back to normal. Guess i did the right thing. For those who having the same problem and run out of idea, maybe you can try what i did.

Singapore/ Malaysia is having a hot/ dry weather these few days. Please take caution of that.

[ruyle]

keehoe,
Rather than extolling the virtues of the de Bruyn filter myself, check with
Ronnie Lee and see what he says about them. I believe he's the only one
in SG that has built these filters and could give you pointers on their construction, if you're interested.

Bill

[keehoe]

Thanks Bill, Actually i was working on the wet/ dry filter sometime back. (Christmass last year to be exact.)

Will spend more time to complete that once my EXO egg is ready.
Would be using 4 feet overhead filter with 3 stackable compartment.
Basic configuration will be taking 6 compartment, 2 level each. If not good enough, just redo the tubing and stack another layer. This don't seems to be the best way of doing it.

I am thinking of another implementationn of same theory. But that is not what this post is about. That is part of my Diapteron's plan.

[whuntley]

Henri's filter design is great when humidity is lower.

I have strong reservations about how helpful it is in tropical areas near oceans, for humidity is high enough that evaporatiive cooling is greatly reduced.

If I was back in Puerto Rico and it was one of their rare hot days*, I would drop an icecube or two into the tank and turn off lights to slowly lower temperature, Maybe do a very small water change <20%> and add a vigorous airstone to get oxygen up as high as possible (and get any evaporation cooling it can provide). AFAIK, oxygen tablets are not available in the US (or probably PR).

[Hence they have never been needed or used for hatching annuals, and we have always had good hatches with few belly-sliders. ]

Wright
_______________________
*It once got to a record 92F (33C) in the town where I lived in 1953.

[TyroneGenade]

33C Ha! 33C is a good summer day in S.Afr. 36C is just super.

If the problem is O2 deprivation simply increase aeration in their tank. But I doubt this is the real problem as you can catch these fish in waters that are often close to 35C I am told. The problem maybe nitrite or ammonia. Did you test for these?

In really warm water their metabolisms are racing to keep pace with the biological decay of proteins etc... and there can be a lot of amino-acid break down that can spike ammonia and nitrite. This is especially so if you are feeding heavily to compensate.

Regards

[ruyle]

Wright,
I was citing Henri's claim that the filter (when air-driven) produced more
oxygen in the tank than sponge filters. This was observed on hot Floridian
days, dunno about humidity. He claims others were losing their fish
when their tanks were in the 90's while he was able to hang onto them,
due to his filter producing more O2.

Bill

[whuntley]

Bill,

No question about that. The water running over wet gravel is a great absorber of oxygen. I was just concerned that there seemed to be an idea that the filter was effective at lowering temperature, which it isn't in humid conditions.

Wright

[keehoe]

That explains it. I pack 6 fish into separate plastic tray for heavy feeding. The one that having problem is the one that have gravel under it. That is for breaking down of waste and making the fish feel more at home. As it is for my photo session.

The water looks OK as normal sign of overfeeding is cloudy water. The fish doesn't eat much as it have not started spawning. That is why i go for O2 treatment rather than just change of water. I know if the fish has no leftover food and its urine can be clear in colour but equally toxic. But this is not the case here.

It does not appear to me that the gravel absorb O2. But it all make sense as the bacteria on the gravel require O2 to survive and breakdown of ammonia/ related.

My airate filter is not using any sponge. It is using "red pearl" filter material. That does everything that normal multi layer filter does.

With reduce feeding and airating the water. Things looks fine now except loosing lots of water due to hot weather. But i am glad that i loosing water rather than loosing fish.

The wet-dry filter does reduce the over all temperature of the aquarium.
As we do lost water due to evaporation as beside being humid, hot weather is also part of our climate. It works very well for Ron as his place is windy. But these can be easily offset by having a submerged water pump.

My Diapteron plan involve hardware such as. HighBlow air pump (maybe an air compressor instead). 6 inch wide "y" shape tube, 5 bag of lava chip and maybe a condenser. I was thinking of replacing lava chip with coral chip or aluminium bead which might introduce more problem with PH and poisoning. I will have to make sure no salt in the water if i were to use aluminium.

[TyroneGenade]

My Diapteron plan involve hardware such as. HighBlow air pump (maybe an air compressor instead). 6 inch wide "y" shape tube, 5 bag of lava chip and maybe a condenser. I was thinking of replacing lava chip with coral chip or aluminium bead which might introduce more problem with PH and poisoning. I will have to make sure no salt in the water if i were to use aluminium.

I would not switch to the coral chips as the Diapteron need soft acidic water to do their best.

I do not know much about the aluminium, but from what I recall salt (NaCl) can only remove rust (oxides) in the presence of an acid (such as vinegar used to clean copper/nickel coins along with NaCl).

Any option that would allow you to boost the water O2 would go a long way to helping you with the Diapteron. You may want to keep the water relatively shallow too to enhance oxygen exchange.

I have kept D. seegersi during hot summer temps (27--28°C) without problems employing just s sponge filter in a 1/3rd filled 64x32x38cm tank. Of course the little seegersi enjoyed large feedings of cyclops, bbs and freshwater shrimp nauplii. The cyclops is perhaps the critical factor as shown in the breeding experiments of Monty Lehman and David Sanchez. Cyclops are rich in DHA and EPA that are essential fishy vitamins that are less stable at high temps in the fish due to increased oxidative damage etc... (or so I hypothesize with broad and vague sweeping statements). Spirulina is also rich in DHA and EPA and enriched bbs may be all you need. You let us know... :-)

Keep well

[stormhawk]

Kee Hoe,

I second Tyrone's suggestion on not using the coral chips. Stick with the lava rock. Its a proven method. If you still want the coral chips to be there, leave a small amount at the top of the lava rock, maybe 5 or so pieces so that it doesn't affect the water too much.

As for the aluminium beads, I'd suggest you not use that avenue. The beads may oxidise in low pH conditions. If you were running the water over a cold plate then probably it may lower the temperature a little.

I think some of us are working on a thermoelectric chiller but that may take some time.

[keehoe]

The reason for coral chip is to provide CaCO3 for chemical reaction. I recall some of these reaction absorb energy. Have to balance it up with peat water. So far, i have not find the equation yet. Maybe Tyron can help.

This experiment is for bring temperature down. If it works we can build an interface so that the Alkaline water don't reach the fishes.

[RonWill]

No question about that. The water running over wet gravel is a great absorber of oxygen. I was just concerned that there seemed to be an idea that the filter was effective at lowering temperature, which it isn't in humid conditions

Wright, FWIW, Singapore's climate isn't dry nor is it excessively humid. I'm a sump-nut and believe in the wet/dry concept that provides higher oxygen level which I'm sure the killies appreciate.

Whether or not such Henri designs are intended for lowering temps, I can't argue but since the implementations, I've consistently achieved averages between 25~27ºC, lowest being 23º and a high of 27ºC. No one have to believe me but multiple thermometers don't lie.

[TyroneGenade]

The reaction is CaCO3 + 2H+ <=> CO2 + Ca++ + H2O. In the conversion from solid CO3 to liquid bicarb to gas CO2 energy is needed and extracted from the environment and the reaction itself which is exothermic! (Take some acid and come base other than bicarb and see for yourself. The reaction is hot! The difference for bicarb is that the CO2 gas carries the heat away.) This is the cooling principle behind soft drinks but it won't really work in the fish tank. The coral chips will get coated in an insolubale oxide layer over time unless the pH falls very low. Also, the level of reaction taking place (because of CO3 surface area and acid concentration) would make such a heat loss insignificant.

Regards