An alternative method hatching eggs

[Piscesgirl]

I've been shoving the "concept of beneficial snails" to many folks and personally, do not have a container or tank without snails

Great minds think alike?

However, instead of a variety of different snails, I maintain mono-cultures of ramhorns... which appear less everytime folks come around my place

Hmm, lol, sounds like you've convinced everyone, they just don't want to admit it! :P

[RonWill]

...first with Fp nigerianus "Makurdi" that I have some problems with

Erik, what might that problem be? Fungicized fuzz-balls or hatching difficulty? If you're using mops for GARs, perhaps you might want to experiment with a method which worked well for me.

• Remove and gently rinse mop in clean aquarium water with a light dose acriflavin [a few drops will be more than enough].
  
  Soak the mop briefly and let it drip dry for about half an hour.
  
  Fluff up the mop, shove it into a small plastic bag and secure with rubber band.
  
  Place the bagged damp mop somewhere dark and let incubate 3 weeks [longer if your ambient/storage temp is below 29ºC].
  
  Check eggs for developed iris and if so, add half bag of water and breath into bag (blow smoke... if you're a smoker )
  
  Secure bag again, shake it and leave it.
  
  If everything goes well, pour fry into another container and transfer to grow-out critter tank

Update me, even if this doesn't work for you, ya?

[RonWill]

Great minds think alike?

Great? No, but it's only logical. Snails are part of the eco that one should try to reproduce, even if it's small scale, like a plastic critter tank for growing-out fry. They serve as scavengers and their waste becomes food for bacteria and in turn, becomes food for larger organisms that fry can eat. Moina and daphnia seems to do much better in 'dirty' tanks like these. My only exception to snails is MTS or Malayan Trumpet Snails. These are tough buggers to rid and worse, they eat eggs.

Personally, for small takeout containers, I'll use at least 4 young ramhorms about 4mm in size/diameter. Combine that with moss, ferns or hornwort, aged aquarium water plus a bit of mulm, the transferred fry have a better chance of growing with mininal intervention.

...they just don't want to admit it! :P

Oh, but most do. They find the small volume of water cleaner and doesn't foul up as easily. Acting as miners' canaries, it warns me to check water condition if they start dropping like flies. OTOH, pond snails (not ramhorns) have a higher threshold to water condition, salt treatment and medication.

[Piscesgirl]

I agree, I've also found that pond snails have a much higher threshold - and to super soft water to. I'll have ramshorns that are almost clear and yet the pond snails are zooming around with color to their shells.

My loaches seem to like the Malaysian Trumpet snails the most. I simply can not keep them in the loach tank -- the loaches will find them, dig em up, and eat them They left a ramshorn til a ripe old age when stupid me removed it to 'save' it, put it in the soft water tank, only to have it keel over not too long after

[turaco]

A wild thought came to my mind, It might work the same way for anyone sending non annual eggs oversea. Eggs plus snail waste in breather bag?

[whuntley]

C'mon Gan,

You are pulling our leg, right?

The snail excrement useful to infusoria, etc. is the liquid part. The pellets are fairly inert.

The snails seem to greatly reduce bacteria, by quickly consuming any food that might otherwise rot. They work in tandem with mosses and other plants that support hordes of tiny filter-feeding infusoria that live on floating bacteria and algae cells.

Ship eggs in very clean water with a touch of ammonia absorber (Amquel o/e), in breather bags, for best results IMO.

Wright

[erikthur]

A combination of methylene blue and acriflavin? Do you remember the concentration/ratio needed to make the solution? I might give it a try.

The recipy according to Anders Cassel's book "Killis" published in the 1980-ies in Swedish is
Euflavin = acriflavine 2.5 gram
Methylene blue 2.0 gram
Water 1000 gram
Use 1 ml of the solution per 1 liter water to protect the eggs in question.

We just buy the ready-made product from the Scandinavian Killifish Association.

[erikthur]

Erik, what might that problem be? Fungicized fuzz-balls or hatching difficulty? If you're using mops for GARs, perhaps you might want to experiment with a method which worked well for me.

My problem seem to be both of the above.
I am trying different methods the latest is the a more lazy alternative - just move the mop to a container with water and Scheel's solution - a tip from Anita Person former president of SKS. The next batch I will try out the method described by Svein.
I would not be surprised if I end up trying your method too.
Thanks for all tips any of you guys give at this forum.
All tips are deeply appreciated by myself and (I guess) by more or less innocent bystanders.

[timebomb]

My guess is a snail would be less effective than a shrimp to keep good eggs from being attacked by fungus. I've never been able to identify the name of the shrimps I used. They are known by many names. Some call them Ghost Shrimps while others say they are Grass or Glass Shrimps. The shop owner whom I bought the shrimps from say they are "Black Shell Shrimps", sometimes called "Malayan Shrimps". In any case, if a shrimp which is much larger than a snail won't eat the eggs, it's definitely safe to try the latter.

I got the idea of using shrimps to keep eggs from being fungused from a post by Tyrone Genade. I can't remember where I read it though. But photographs don't lie so you can be assured I wasn't bluffing The shrimp really do clean the eggs.



Loh K L

[milkyway]

My guess is a snail would be less effective than a shrimp to keep good eggs from being attacked by fungus. I've never been able to identify the name of the shrimps I used. They are known by many names. Some call them Ghost Shrimps while others say they are Grass or Glass Shrimps. The shop owner whom I bought the shrimps from say they are "Black Shell Shrimps", sometimes called "Malayan Shrimps". In any case, if a shrimp which is much larger than a snail won't eat the eggs, it's definitely safe to try the latter.

I got the idea of using shrimps to keep eggs from being fungused from a post by Tyrone Genade. I can't remember where I read it though. But photographs don't lie so you can be assured I wasn't bluffing The shrimp really do clean the eggs.

Loh K L

This shrimp method was what I employed for my eggs. Thanks to the information found in the sticky thread.

Man, these Malayan shrimps are very effective in cleaning the eggs. They don't seem to have eaten any of my eggs so far. One shrimp to one container of eggs ,thats what I do.

After the fries hatched, I left the fries alone with the shrimp till they are
big enough to be transferred to another bigger tank. No casualties so
far too.

Regards
Rob

[TyroneGenade]

I originally got the idea from a little book/pamphlet by Dr. Herbie mentioning asellus shrimp... Well I couldn't find any of them so I just used the first Shrimp that came along: Caradina sp. aff. africana. Worked like a charm. Not only did they do a great job cleaning eggs and eating dead ones but the shrimp nauplii were great food for my Diapteron seegersi!

I think I mentioned it in an article on my website... but I'm pretty certain I also mentioned in on Killietalk once or twice.

But it was you who presented it the best with those fantastic pictures!

For eggs shipping, storage sans shrimps I got the best results using a half strength mix of Tetra General Tonic (which consits of acradine orange which is similar to acriflavine and meth. blue). Putting the eggs on moss always works like a charm---when the eggs are fertile.

I do now regard many of the fungusing egg problems to be a matter of unfertilized and comprimized eggs rather than bacteria or fungus. If the eggs start good they normally yield fry regardless what you do wrong.

tt

[Diapterondave]

Ok I love you this forum! I have been reading the posts with keen interest. So much that I went out and got some snails and what here in North American are called Ghost shrimp. Will these shrimp work? will the common american pond snail work? ANy fellow USA killie keepers out there experimented with this? I want to incubate my D.abacinum eggs like this and I would apreacieate all the info I can get. BTW Ron will before the hurricane hit Florida and I still had my fishroom I was using snails in my incubation to raise sensitive fry. I use a similar concept as you do. Small container with screen in a larger tank with ample gallons and ample filtration. The snails were great at eating leftover artemia etc. Great mind do think alike

Dave

[erikthur]

By now I have tried Svein's method (tank water and some diminutive snails) with some batches of eggs from Fp nigerianus "Makurdi" with increasing success.
At the start I got up to approximatively 30% fungus infected eggs but lately hardly none.
Good results with Apl lineatus too but I had less problem with those eggs from the start.
That is about it since my Fp walkeri is not delivering and the rest of my fish are annuals.