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Thread: Betta macrostoma

  1. #21
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    Ron, thats right, and in my subjective view, it's expencive paying 150 dollar or euro for a species whos quite easy to breed.
    I hope you will tell us betta fan how the progress become for your macks This is my next goal, but I haven't the guts yest.
    Regards
    Svein

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonWill
    Needless to say, I'm fattening them up and will be working hard at it.
    oh... did I mention my fat pair of Betta channoides?
    Ronnie,

    You may want to re-consider what you are doing. Obesity isn't good for Bettas. A Betta breeder told me recently that if the female is too fat, the male wouldn't be able to curl his body around hers. In other words, he won't be able to squeeze the eggs out of her.

    Just as in humans, fat female Bettas are less desirable

    Loh K L

  3. #23
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    Kwek Leong,
    As a former betta hobbyist, I'm well aware of the obesity issue but thanks for the reminder. So let me just rephrase.... my fishes are well fed!

    Svein,
    It's my first venture with such pricey bettas and if all goes well, you'll be informed. Afterall, you have some nice killies I'm drooling over

    Doesn't take alot of guts either.... I go with the motto "NEVER TRY, NEVER KNOW" [MY other favourite is Nike's slogan, "JUST DO IT!"]
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  4. #24
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    Svein,
    By now, the macs respond well during feeding time when I tap on the netting directly over the worm feeder. They'll come up-front, waiting eagerly. Today, how strange... I didn't see the male.

    The female was already enjoying a rather large tubifex (blackworm??) but I was getting worried that the male might be sick... GOSH!!!

    When he finally appeared, my guts nearly dropped....

    Rushed away to grab my digicam and shot a few quick pics but the reflection from nearby objects resulted in poor images.

    I went nearer...


    Although the pics were quite blurry, it was a costly intrusion. He obviously didn't like the flashes going off and shortly after, was eating again.

    Damned! He just swallowed a mouthful of eggs!!! Sorry folks, no more pics of brooding daddy next time.

    In my eagerness, lost the first batch but I will await their next breeding cycle and remain hopeful, to be able to show pics of their little buggers.

    <sob!> Oh well... try again... [someone pass me a hankie] <sob!>
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  5. #25
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    Aww you spooked the poor fella. They don't like sudden intrusions into their privacy.

    That "big tubifex" that might be a "blackworm", I usually remove those when I come across them during rinses for the tubifex. I used those primarily to condition my previous bunch of angelfishes for breeding but I found them to be too large for most of my fishes.

    I don't like their look either so I chuck most of them away when I come across them that is. Either that or they become turtle food for my brother's pet softshell turtle.
    Fish.. Simply Irresistable
    Back to Killies... slowly.

  6. #26
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    Ron
    This is a picture I should very much by my self should see (at my home)

    I have found out afte 3 litters with albimarginata; when the male don't arrive to the feeding time, he carry eggs, and I remove female and cover at once the tank.
    The result is 40 youngsters.

    Next time Ron, next time
    Good luck
    Regards
    Svein

  7. #27
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    Svein,
    Unless the parents are proven to be egg or fry eaters, despite having sufficient food, I'd rather leave the pair together and allow the young ones to grow up within the same tank.

    The Betta unimaculata and B. simplex were prolific within 6gal tanks and I remove fry monthly during water changes.

    Here's a greedy group of unimacs in a grow-out partition.


    BTW, I just learnt that my pair of macs were wild-caughts from Sarawak.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  8. #28
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    Folks,
    After my pair of mac swallowed the eggs a 2nd time, I decided that comes a third spawning, I'll strip the eggs and see how many are actually viable.

    Two hypothesis. One is that the pair is still young and usually need time to perfect parental skills. 2nd, could be that the male swallowed non-viable eggs to save the rest.

    Nov 19th. The stripping process was short and sweet, and collected quite a nice number of 2mm eggs. Care was taken not to overly-stress the adult male.

    Color of the eggs is more opaque than I'm used to but looks good, and water incubated them with moderate aeration and a very light tint of methylene blue (MB).

    Two days later, using back-lighting, more than half the eggs aren't gonna make it.

    In case I was wrong, those opacified eggs were siphoned out and incubated separately with a slightly heavier dose of MB. Will attempt closer shot of the developing eggs.

    Comments on incubation period?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  9. #29
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    Good luck Ron

    It all boils down to temperature of the water I suspect. I find the incubation period of my channoides varies upto 10 days between each spawn.

    Sometimes the male releases them within two weeks sometimes take 10 days longer. I suspect the fry are fully developed for number of days before the male releases them. So with all going well your incubation period should be relatively brief; ~2weeks or less. But since I never kept macs I could be wrong!

    Cheers,

    Serkan

  10. #30
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    I've been observing this thread and now have got a few questions.

    How are you incubating those eggs Ronnie? I've heard of people artificially incubating Tropheus eggs in a sort of tumbler to try to mimic the parents care.

    Also, what temperature do you keep your unimaculata at?
    ~Joseph

  11. #31
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    Serkan,
    All the eggs collected on Nov 19th turned white and most started disintegrating by the 3rd day. I'm not sure what happened to those that 'looked ok' (in the backlit image) but they went bad as well. It could have been a case of mis-handling but having many eggs in one container isn't a good idea.

    Pair spawned for the 4th time yesterday morning (Dec 1st) and again, I'm attempting artificial incubation with the harvested 68 eggs. This time in 3 separate containers and in different waters (one of them in pH4 peat water). I suspect that the eggs might be light sensitive and might need high O² to develop properly, so another lot of 20 eggs is in a darkened vessel with strong aeration. [I say *might* because I don't have a damn clue where I'm heading! ]

    One good sign, throughout all the bad, is that the male was still brooding the eggs on the 2nd day. On previous spawns, he would have swallowed them already. For his 5th attempt at fatherhood, I'll leave him with Mother Nature and just observe from afar.

    At this point, I'd want to say that the pair has been very well behaved, no fights, no squabbles and maturing very nicely. I'm very hesitant to remove the female after spawning as this peaceful cohabitation may changed once reunited again after the fry are released (ie, if I ever get to see the fry). Suggestions?

    Joseph,
    The last lot of eggs were incubated simply in a large container with strong aeration. This time, I DIY'ed a egg-tumbler but over-estimated the netting grid. That didn't work as eggs were slipping through the netting material. I'll try something else with smaller gaps and see if that works any better.

    My entire lot of unimac's was distributed to two betta hobbyists but while the pair and juvenile were with me, average temps was between 25~29ºC. You keeping any of these?
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  12. #32
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    Just a brief update for those following the thread. All the eggs, in 3 containers, didn't make it. The low pH stopped fungal growth but it's obvious that none are viable.

    Next time the male mouthbroods, I'm leaving him to do his job and until I see fry in his tank, I'm not going to strip him again.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  13. #33
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    So sorry to hear about that, RonWill. Macs are fantastic bettas. I'm intending to get a pair or trio later. I do have smaragdinas which I spawned 3 months ago.

  14. #34
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    Ron: Sorry to hear about the eggs...hopefully this time around is better.

    I have not kept any of the bettas besides a few splendens, but they do seem to be interesting fish. 2 fish I wish were more commonly available would be Macropodus "concolor"(now M. spechtii) and Psuedophromenus.
    ~Joseph

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  16. #36
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    Joseph,
    Thanks for the link. I've been following Merrilyn's (aka "ladyred") postings but in other local forums. Must admit I'm very envious.

    Still, I can't figure what else to do except that at one point, I was caring for 4 pairs of macs (a friend asked to help condition his 2 pairs). All 4 males have mouthbrooded in my setups, only to swallow everything over the next few days. Not sure if removing the female is absolutely necessary but I'll do that next time.

    For the Pseudosphromenus, I did an image search with Google and found it confusing. This particular fella looks more like the Malpulutta kretseri pair which I'm trying to breed.

    For a brief period, I had a pair of wild-caught Paradise Fish (Macropodus opercularis) from China, which had real tiny fry. I gave that up to someone who has the time to better care for them than I. Incidentally, I stumbled onto your page too!

    Nessa,
    Do give the macs a go when opportunity present itself as they are responsive and when they 'yawn', they really do have BIG mouths! (good culling machine )
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  17. #37
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    Hi all, just a stupid question. Do you see eggs in the fish mouth when they yawn?
    KeeHoe.

  18. #38
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    not a stupid question really but they don't 'yawn' when mouth brooding.... just like I don't talk with my mouth full at the dining table
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

  19. #39
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    This is my Mac male I aquired a month ago. Young pair from C328. Today, the male is found brooding! Didn't expect it to be so soon as the male is not showing its full colour yet. The male used to be very showy but had been hiding quite a lot now. On the other hand, the female which I hardly see is now out. I'll leave them as usual & see what turns out.

  20. #40
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    Gan, the male doesn't look like it's brooding unless the spawn is small for the first timer. If the 'throat' swells like the edited pic and he starts to 'gargle', that's when the fun begins. Good luck.
    I'm back & keeping 'em fingers wet,
    Ronnie Lee

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