Moss ID please

[hemiolopterus]

Hello,

I was told by the lfs owner that the moss shown below as xmas moss. But I think otherwise as it is quite different from the xmas moss that I bought from other places. The moss are kept in an outdoor tank without any filtration and cooling mechanism. Appreciate if anyone can tell me what moss is this. Thanks.

regards,
JS Tan
KL, Malaysia

I have java moss as well in the tank. This moss doesn't look like java to me.


Closeup on the "flower?" (not sure what is this).


Closeup on one of the frond

[timebomb]

Very nice pics, JS.

But it's hard to identify mosses from pictures. Send me a frond or 2 and I will ask the professor to identify it for you. However, the fact you acquire the moss from a fish shop, it would mean we can only tell you the genus and not the species.

I don't think it's Christmas Moss though but it could be something close, probably a species of Vesicularia. I don't want to disparage fish shop owners but it's best to take the names they provide with a pinch of salt. Fish shop owners' interests is in selling their goods so it's natural that they will call their mosses by all sorts of fancy names.

Loh K L

[hemiolopterus]

Thanks KL. I'll send you some sample by this weekend. Wonder if you or the professor will be interested to check out some other mosses I bought from hong kong and locally in malaysia. Very likely just some common xmas and java moss. I bought most of the mosses from Singapore which I think is of little interest to the professor. Mainly from the shop next to NA.

regards,
JS Tan

Very nice pics, JS.

But it's hard to identify mosses from pictures. Send me a frond or 2 and I will ask the professor to identify it for you. However, the fact you acquire the moss from a fish shop, it would mean we can only tell you the genus and not the species.

I don't think it's Christmas Moss though but it could be something close, probably a species of Vesicularia. I don't want to disparage fish shop owners but it's best to take the names they provide with a pinch of salt. Fish shop owners' interests is in selling their goods so it's natural that they will call their mosses by all sorts of fancy names.

Loh K L

[timebomb]

Wonder if you or the professor will be interested to check out some other mosses I bought from hong kong and locally in malaysia.

JS, if the mosses were bought from fish shops, it would mean we can't be positive about the identities unless we know for sure, the countries of origin.
I would suggest you grow the mosses first and if they do well in your tanks and you find them to be different from the ones we know, then send some to me. You mentioned outdoor conditions in your earlier post. Outdoors, under shade, mosses grow well as it's cool. Indoors, it's warmer so it's better to have fans or other cooling systems for your tank.

In the meantime, you can send the moss in your pictures. Here's my address:

Loh Kwek Leong
Block 104 Towner Road
#08-324
Singapore 322104

You do not have to write anything on the envelope. Just put the moss in a plastic bag, invert it and let the water drain out as much as possible. Seal the bag and put it in an envelope. Mosses are good travellers and what you send should reach me in good condition. Just remember there mustn't be too much water in the bag or the moss will rot during the journey. Keep them slightly moist and everything should be fine.

Loh K L

[hemiolopterus]

KL,

The moss shown in this post has been around for almost a year growing outdoor. Its spreading like nobody business, now reaching more than 20cm high fully covering 2 x 20 gallons tank. I never bother with the outdoor tanks except weekly fertilisation. All the moss I'm keeping is doing ok except for the fact that some of them does not looks like what they suppose to be. For instance my weeping moss, it behave like erect moss more than anything else. I just got a few little pieces a few months ago, hopefully it will change shape soon. I keep it indoor with fan of course along side with some other mosses.

regards,
JS Tan

JS, if the mosses were bought from fish shops, it would mean we can't be positive about the identities unless we know for sure, the countries of origin.

Ok got the message chief.

[timebomb]

JS, I would love to see the pictures of your outdoor tanks if it's okay with you. Some mosses are versatile and under different conditions, they appear in different forms. My Weeping grows upright too. When we (the professor, a few friends and I) were introduced to this moss in our tour of Oriental aquatic plant farm, they told us that the moss takes on the weeping look only after it's been grown for a while in the tanks. I'm inclined to believe now, after having seen Tony aka Gomer's Weeping Moss, that this isn't the only condition to achieve the weeping look . His definitely weeps and according to Tony, besides time, the trick is in the amount of CO2.

But it could also be what you have isn't the genuine McKoy. Are you sure yours are Weeping Moss, JS? Do you also have Erect Moss? If not, I can send some for you to make a comparison. Most of my Erect Mosses have turned brown and died but I still have some fronds in my balcony tanks.

Let me have your mailing address through private message if you are uncomfortable about revealing your address here. By the way, I'm no chief. I'm just like you, someone who love mosses

Loh K L

[hemiolopterus]

KL, ok I will try to take some pics this weekend as it will be too dark after i finish work. The moss grows upright too... like multiple fans in the tank. Maybe because it's too crowded. Gave alot to my friends as it was choking my fishes . Previously I kept my java moss in styrofoam boxes outdoor too. The moss crawl out of the box and spread all over.

The weeping moss was bought from the shop next to NA and was told it was "ku moh" in mandarin, weeping moss i suppose. It has the largest fronds among all my moss. I'll post a picture of it tonight in the weeping moss post.

Nope, I do not have erect moss. Thanks for the offer. Hope mine is the real McKoy. I'll pm you my address later.

regards,
JS Tan

[timebomb]

JS,

The shop next to Nature Aquarium sells many aquatic plants but I've never seen Weeping Moss there. Well, maybe it's just because I don't go there often but other than a few fish shops, most of the so-called Weeping Mosses in the market aren't the genuine ones.

I'm not accusing fish shop owners of deliberately cheating their customers but the fact is, it's very hard to tell one moss from another. Fish shop owners depend on their suppliers for their goods and it's not unusual for suppliers to make mistakes.

I won't name the shop but recently, I took some Weeping Moss from a fish shop that specialises in mosses to the professor. After examining it, he said it isn't genuine Weeping Moss. I was surprised as I thought the Moss was the real McKoy. The owner was shocked too when I told him about it later. He had been selling the moss for a long time and he couldn't believe what he had wasn't the real Weeping Moss.

Tell you what, I'll send you both the Weeping and Erect Moss. This will help you to find out which exactly is yours. But then again, we can never be sure as my Weeping Moss does not weep at all. The thought of that makes me want to weep

Loh K L

[Green Baron]

Kwek Leong,
The nice 'Singapore Moss' pole I gave you came from the shop next to N.A. as well. From the photo, it looks like a Vesicularia sp.. I have this feeling that this is another Singapore moss

Speaking of Weeping moss, I bought some moss that looks like weeping moss many many months ago from China. They were growing very well in my office tank but they look more like Singapore/Christmas Moss but with bigger and broader fronds. I thought I must have made a mistake and bought a different species of moss. Recently all of them started to bend downwards and they now look like the Orinetal Aq Weeping Moss !
This just go to show how variable mosses can be !

[hemiolopterus]

JS,

Tell you what, I'll send you both the Weeping and Erect Moss. This will help you to find out which exactly is yours. But then again, we can never be sure as my Weeping Moss does not weep at all. The thought of that makes me want to weep

Loh K L

Thanks again KL for the weeping moss. I hope it matches mine else there goes my money down the drain. Ain't cheap those few strands of mosses I bought.

I'm now trying a few strands of the moss in the outdoor tank. Hope it will bring me better result. I didn't really bother taking the water temperature in the outdoor tanks but it is definately a few celcius above my indoor fan cooled tanks with around 26-27C at around 8-9pm. Just felt the big different when I dip my whole hand inside both the indoor and outdoor tanks. The tanks are facing east therefore they take in about 2-3 hours of full morning sunlight. I think I will monitor the temperature to be sure of the temperature in the outdoor tanks.

regards,
JS Tan

[hemiolopterus]

KL,

Here's the photos taken. Sorry for the very bad photos because the tanks are situated in my garden. I took photos in the evening but because the moss fill up the whole tank and not much light can penetrates in, the glass of the tank became a mirror and quite impossible for me to take photos without flash. But with flash I face different challenges. Quite difficult for me to use a tripod too. Anyway I tried at night but i can't see a darn thing with my viewfinder. Just simply shoot. As long you get the idea how the moss are in the tanks. But I think the moss in the centre are turning brown because of no light.

Taken in the evening. Half of the photo with reflection of the house wall.


Taken at night.


regards,
JS Tan

[hemiolopterus]

Hi KL,

I received the mosses you sent yesterday. Thank you once again . Now confirm the weeping moss I have is the same as yours so it should be true. The erect moss fronds are totally different from the weeping moss as the fromer were smaller.

regards,
JS Tan

[timebomb]

JS,

I can't see your recent pictures. If you have problems uploading them to this forum, send them to me by email and I will post them for you.

Glad to know you have received the mosses I sent. I got yours too yesterday. I'll get in touch with the professor to see when he's free to examine the mosses. The one you sent is very pretty and looks different from any I've seen. Thanks.

Loh K L

[hemiolopterus]

Hi KL,

I think it was an error on the server hosting my images. I will fix the problem within these few days.

Glad to know you received mine too. Luckily the mosses you sent to me are still intact. The envelope was inspected by the post office. If that post man was a moss nut, surely I won't be able to receive all of them haha.

I'm now trying a few mosses I found on land in my tank. So far I see there's 1 species still very green and alive although not much growth detected. Another one I think is liverwort although on closer looks it has fronds but very close to each other. This one is growing I think. Another moss is definately growing but not sure will it turn out to be something. These 2 mosses has been in my tank for 3-4 weeks except the liverwort for 1 week. Can a terrestrial moss survive so long under water? Other terrestrial mosses I tried turns brown within 1-2 weeks.

regards,
JS Tan

[timebomb]

Can a terrestrial moss survive so long under water? Other terrestrial mosses I tried turns brown within 1-2 weeks.

JS,

From the many conversations I had with the professor, the answer to your question is "Yes". Some terrestrial mosses can live and grow under water for months but they eventually die off because their life cycles have been altered. On ground, mosses propagate by spreading their spores. Spores are contained in sporophytes, the things that look like commas.

The professor is amused that hobbyists like us try to change the life cycles of terrestrial mosses. Besides being amused, he also thinks it's cruel of us to do this. He was delighted when I told him the Erect Mosses in our tanks are dying.

Loh K L

[hemiolopterus]

KL,

Looks like it would be quite hopeless for me to find a potential aquatic moss on land in Kuala Lumpur. I'm just hoping at least I can find some singapore moss.

regards,
JS

[timebomb]

JS,

I met the professor in his lab this evening and he said your moss is a species of Taxiphyllum which would mean it belongs to the same group as Java Moss. The prof can't be sure of the species as we don't know where the moss orginates from. There was one sporophyte in the sample you sent but the professor said it does not belong to the moss. My guess is the sporophyte came from some other moss in your tank.

What's interesting is that we have now seen several species of Taxiphyllums, besides the 2 common ones, Java and Taiwan. I have one in my tank that is known as Spiky Moss (show you all a pic later). Gan bought 2 species from a local fish shop and Aquaturbo aka Tan SW has a Taxiphyllum which he calls Peacock Moss.

The professor intends to do a study on these Taxiphyllums and identify them by comparing what we have with those specimens sent from moss museums in other countries. The problem is the professor is short on time so he needs a student to do the project for him. He hasn't found one yet. When he finds the right student, I will round up all the Taxiphyllums circulating in Singapore and bring it all to him. I will need you all to co-operate on this when the time comes. Thank you.

Loh K L

[hemiolopterus]

KL,


Thanks for the ID. There are only 2 type of mosses in my outdoor tanks. The other one is the java moss. So if that is not from the moss I sent you then it have to be from the java moss.

Got a question one the star shaped flower likes object on the moss in the close up photo I took. Actually what is that? Doesn't those sporophytes came from there?

I will round up all the Taxiphyllums circulating in Singapore and bring it all to him. I will need you all to co-operate on this when the time comes

How can we tell if the moss we have is Taxiphyllums or not? We'll just sent in whatever moss we suspect is Taxiphyllums? Let me go hunt abit more around the lfs for more moss samples.

regards,
JS Tan

[timebomb]

There are only 2 type of mosses in my outdoor tanks. The other one is the java moss. So if that is not from the moss I sent you then it have to be from the java moss.

JS, are you sure your other moss is Java? Ever since I met the professor, I've been trying to find Java Moss that produce sporophytes. So far, I've seen only one but it's a species of Java Moss that orginates from the West. In our regions, no one has been able to grow Java Moss with sporophytes. The professor has seen a sample of Java Moss with sporophytes many years ago but that one came from Vietnam and he no longer has the specimen. It's very important to us that if you have Java Moss with sporophytes, that you send us a sample so that the professor can make a positive identification. Please check your tanks again. Thank you.

Got a question one the star shaped flower likes object on the moss in the close up photo I took. Actually what is that? Doesn't those sporophytes came from there?

The star shaped flower is a female organ. You can read more about moss sex organs in this thread. I'm not sure if sporophytes are produced from sex organs or how the process actually takes place. Perhaps Budak who knows quite a bit about sex can enlighten us on this.

How can we tell if the moss we have is Taxiphyllums or not? We'll just sent in whatever moss we suspect is Taxiphyllums? Let me go hunt abit more around the lfs for more moss samples.

It's difficult to tell whether a moss is a Taxiphyllum without the help of a microscope. If you're unsure, just send it over and I'll let the professor examine it. By the way, the professor likes your moss very much. He thinks it's very lovely. I think so too. The prof suspects your moss could have its origins in China but he can't be sure. There are many species of Taxiphyllums from China, the prof said.

JS, do you remember which fish shop you bought the moss from? And when did you buy it? I don't need the exact date but if you can give me a rough figure, I would appreciate it very much.

Loh K L

[timebomb]

As promised, here's a pic of my Spiky Moss. The professor identified it as a Taxiphyllum but in the absence of more information, the species name cannot be determined.



I got the moss from Generation X, the fish shop located at Marine Parade. When I first got it, it looked like this:



Loh K L