Aphyosemion exigoideum

**timebomb** · 2nd Apr 2004, 16:52

Hi, folks,

Tom aka BlinkyTom sent some eggs to us for auction when we held our gathering sometime in November last year. If memory serves, Ronnie was the one who outbidded everyone for the eggs of the Aphyosemion exigoedeum. So I find it kind of strange how the fish landed up in Lily's hands. She has good hands, I must say but apparently, many things have been happening behind the scenes

Here are 2 pictures Lily sent :

Loh K L

**RonWill** · 2nd Apr 2004, 20:09

Originally Posted by timebomb

If memory serves, Ronnie was the one who outbidded everyone for the eggs of the Aphyosemion exigoedeum.

You've gotten it mixed up... you 'old man'

It's the Aphyosemion primigenium Kanda GJS 00/18 that I won at the gathering. (Tom, how are you? It's been a long time since we last heard from you)

Out of that lot of eggs, I've had some good fry... but unfortunately, these grow really really slow and I'm down to 3 of them

... and they still haven't colored up! No telling which sexes I have there either.

So I find it kind of strange how the fish landed up in Lily's hands. She has good hands

Kwek Leong, btw, it's Aphy. exigoideum 'Ngoudoufola' and we both can agree that she's got good wet fingers! (hmm... somehow that sentence didn't come out right, did it?

) Still, I wish she isn't so quiet these days and am sure she has plenty of killie stories to share with us.

FWIW, the Aphy. exigoideum 'Ngoudoufola' was from the 1st mass order and from the 6 fry, I was lucky to have 3 pairs. Since I was having problem getting 'em to breed, I tasked Lily with her 'lady luck', to try coax some eggs from 'em. Does that explain 'alot of things'? :wink:

I must say but apparently, many things have been happening behind the scenes

sssshhhhh !!! ... my Mrs. reads this forum <gulp!>

**zmzfam** · 2nd Apr 2004, 21:10

Out of the 10 frys that I got of the Aphyosemion exigoideum 'Ngoudoufola', I'm left with NOTHING!

I'm not sure what happened to them, everyday I take a peep at the container, it seems to be diminishing. Finally, couldn't find any fry at all. No fry body also.

Are they a difficult species to keep?

**RonWill** · 2nd Apr 2004, 22:10

Oh dear... Zul, sorry to hear about your fry. That has gotta hurt! Ouch!

IIRC, I raised the fry in 'dirty water', ie. plenty of mulm & detritus, so I presumed they fed on infusoria and other micro-organisms before they were able to consume BBS. One thing I noticed about the EXO fry, was their smaller size... so what were you feeding them?

For this species, I recall that the exigoideum are especially prone to dropsy, which was how I lost a good number of them.

Perhaps Tom can chip in his experience since he's able to breed them. Tom... yoo hoo... are you still with us?

**zmzfam** · 2nd Apr 2004, 22:30

That's an ouch! ouch! on my pocket. Luckily the rest are growing well.

I put them in a container full of java moss - the java moss was pulled from my 4ft tank which definitely has lots of mulm and detritus.
The body size - from my observation - seems to be the same as the AUS, so I just put in a tiny drop of bbs from 2nd day onwards.

The mystery

here is that I can't find any dead bodies even though I keep seeing lesser fry as the days goes by.

**RonWill** · 2nd Apr 2004, 22:40

Originally Posted by zmzfam

The mystery

here is that I can't find any dead bodies even though I keep seeing lesser fry as the days goes by.

Zul, I don't detect anything odd in the initial fry handling but if you, like me, keep ramhorns in the grow-out containers, then it's likely that the snails have done their job. Young shrimps are also good in cleaning up excess food and decaying matter (and a dead fry is just that).

**timebomb** · 2nd Apr 2004, 23:29

Originally Posted by RonWill

You've gotten it mixed up... you 'old man'

It's the Aphyosemion primigenium Kanda GJS 00/18 that I won at the gathering. btw, it's Aphy. exigoideum 'Ngoudoufola'

Oh geez, this is embarrassing. Not only I got the species wrong, I spelled the name incorrectly too.

Thanks for pointing out the error, Ronnie. And yes, I wish Lily would tell us some of her Killie stories here too. It's more fun with her around :wink:.

Loh K L

**stormhawk** · 2nd Apr 2004, 23:42

Zul, the deaths could have been attributed to two reasons.

1) The bbs u fed them, did u rinse them beforehand to remove the brine? I lost alot of constanciae fry when i fed BBS direct with some brine solution. The increased salt content in the water shocked them.

2) Water parameters might not have been to their liking. The pH and hardness of the water affects some fish adversely.

**zmzfam** · 3rd Apr 2004, 08:47

Originally Posted by RonWill

...it's likely that the snails have done their job.

You could be right Ron, as I put at least 2 snails in the containers.

Stormhawk,

1) Yes, I rinsed my bbs before feeding to the frys and fishes - even though it is more work - so I ruled that one out.

2) Could be the cause. From Tim Addis site, he raised the frys in a ph8 and dH10 and the frys sexed out evenly. From another site, water chemistry is only mentioned as acid freshwater. From fishbase, ph7.0 to ph7.5. For me I just use plain old SG tapwater.

**blinkytom** · 3rd Apr 2004, 18:07

Hello all

Sorry I haven't been around much lately, I've been having trouble figuring out what I'm going to do when I've finished my A levels. I've decided on doing a course in college in the same town as where I live now. So I won't have to move out and can keep my fish room going for a couple more years

I'm sorry to hear about your losses Ronnie. The batch of eggs I hatched a few weeks ago are doing fine but growing very slowly as you say. I've had quite a few fry losses in the last few weeks but mostly from the Nothos. I think my problem is putting too many fry in each raising tub, I'm running out of room for tubs. Let me know if you get all females and I'll send more eggs over when I can.

I've never kept exigoideum but if I'm not mistaken they are part of the striatum group, as are the primigenium. I raise primigenium like all my other fry, in raising tubs for a few weeks then moving them into tanks. I feed pretty much exclusively on BBS at the moment as my worm cultures are going through a bad patch. As I've found from my dieing Nothos, I think space is a key factor, fry don't like to be crowded.

**imported_lily** · 4th Apr 2004, 18:18

Hi,

So you guys have been 'gossiping' behind my back...

I don’t really have ‘good hands’ as what you guys claimed. I cant get anything more then one miserable fry out of the Aphy exigoideum.

As I only have all males for the Aphyosemion bitaeniatum Ijebu-Odé, I was stunned to see the female being so aggressively fierce.

She will chase the male every now and then and nipped off his fins. The poor bugger have to avoid her and is always hiding in the mop. so Ronnie, I hope that will explain why the male has become ‘less handsome’ blame it on the female!! I did not manage to collect any eggs from them too. Wonder how to if the female is so fierce and male is so timid!!

I must say but apparently, many things have been happening behind the scenes

So you see 'old man' I mean Mr Loh, nothing happens behind the scenes, that's why I cant collect any eggs!!

**killifishdavid** · 4th Apr 2004, 19:17

Zulkifli,
Is it possible that the EXO fry have managed to jumpout of their tank?
I have seen killifish fry of 1/2 inch that are able to do this.

**RonWill** · 5th Apr 2004, 05:05

Originally Posted by blinkytom

The batch of eggs I hatched a few weeks ago are doing fine but growing very slowly as you say.

Let me know if you get all females and I'll send more eggs over when I can.

Tom, I'm glad you're still with us and keeping well. IYE (In Your Experience), how long does it take for the primigenium to start coloring up and to reach maturity? By then, I should know if I'm fortunate enough to have a pair to work on. If not, I'll give 'ya a holler.

BTW, best wishes with your academic endeavours.

**blinkytom** · 5th Apr 2004, 06:43

Hi Ronnie

My primigenium tend to colour up at around an inch (2.5cm) in length. I'm very bad at keeping records so I don't know how old they are.

Thanks for the good wishes.

**zmzfam** · 5th Apr 2004, 08:54

Originally Posted by killifishdavid

Zulkifli,
Is it possible that the EXO fry have managed to jumpout of their tank?
I have seen killifish fry of 1/2 inch that are able to do this.

David, I doubt that. The container was full of java moss and the height difference was about 3 inch.

Urmm..guys..I might have find out another cause for my frys disappearance...HYDRA!
I just noticed that there are hydras on the side glass of my 4ft tank where I harvest the java moss to be used for the frys containers. It could be that the hydra was hanging on the java moss so couldn't see them.
I also found hydras in the AUS 'Cape Esterias' frys container and in the AGI container. Lucky there was no casualty there.

**RonWill** · 5th Apr 2004, 10:11

Originally Posted by lily

So you guys have been 'gossiping' behind my back...

... and what better way to get you out of your shell? :wink:

Welcome back Lily, and it's good to know you've gotten at least one fry. I lost a female exigoideum recently to dropsy and am left with a reversed trio, which were transferred on Saturday, to another bigger tank that has BIT Ijebu-Odé, Pseudomugil gertrudae and pygmy corys.

The change was for the better, triggering color-up in the male exigoideum. It could have been the pH drop as there were driftwoods soaking in preparation for a tank rescape. I can't find them now... probably hiding since I did some plant-shopping yesterday and the tank is stuffed with potted anubias.

As for that fierce Ijebu-Odé female, would you like to exchange for another? Don't think I have extra males tho but you might want to remove the female to another container for a few days, let the male regain his domain and then re-introducing the female. Switching environment and moving objects in that environment sometimes changes 'the order of things'.

**markc** · 8th Jul 2005, 14:52

Just dig this out to prepare for weekend update.

**keehoe** · 9th Jul 2005, 23:04

Hi all, i finally decided to had a go spawning these little cutie. These are some photo taken shortly before sending them off for second night out together.

Lovely couple.

Sorry about the photo quality as i am quite new in photo taking as well. There are lots of scraches on the plastic tank.

This is the result of the night out together. Manage to find two eggs on the java moss. I am sure there are more.
(Jeff, recognize your java moss? I had put it to good use.)

As the result, i remove all the java moss out and put in something easier for me to find if they do kinky things again tonight.

I also realise one thing. The fishes spawn after the cold water treatment. Not during. When they were doing kinky things, the tank temperature was 29C.

What is next? Keeping the eggs viable has been my greatest challenge. They are soft and easy to turn bad. Heard about putting eggs in high PH water would improve the egg condition. Did anyone tried anything like that?

**whuntley** · 10th Jul 2005, 00:43

Kee Hoe.

I don't think pH is very important, except as it affects the bacteria or other things that can harm eggs. Below about 5, there are few harmful bacteria, but other critters may still survive. Nitrite can be a big problem at low pH (brown-blood disease). If high pH is obtained by hard water with a lot of Ca and Mg, I think it can toughen the chorion and make the eggs of some rainforest species have a hard time hatching.

Good healthy parents will give eggs that are tougher, and those that turn white (and later fuzzy) were probably not fertilized. Clean water, with low ammonia, is the most important hatching ingredient. High pH can turn any ammonium (NH4+) to the deadly ammonia (NH3), so I usually avoid letting pH go above 7.5 or so.

Handling eggs of some species (Epis and Pseudepis) seems to force bacteria into the egg or mechanically kills them and few survive it. Either keep in a heavily-planted "natural" tank and remove babies as they appear, or move mops to a hatching tank with water from the parents' tank.

The only treatment I use in egg-hatching containers is a very weak 50:50 acriflavin/methylene blue to supress any bacteria. Better is a sprig of Java Moss and one drop of Liquifry No 1, to create a small infusoria bloom. Those filter feeders (Rotifers, Paramecia, etc,) keep the water crystal clear as they eat all the free-swimming bacteria.

If I do use the chemicals, I only add enough to tint the water a very pale green, and then do 50% daily changes with clean water to quickly dilute it. The acriflavin is a mild tanning agent, and can toughen the chorion of the egg too much if you use very much of it.

Hope that helps,

Wright