Austrolebias nigripinnis 'Villa Soriano'

[nonamethefish]

I've now got a bag of Aust. nigripinnis 'Villa Soriano' eggs from the same person who sent me the 'Misaje'. They are due some time in late November. A search through the forum shows at least a couple of you have kept this particular one so perhaps you guys may be able to help.

How different will these SAA be from Nothos?

From what I can get you need cool water and lots of O2 for a good hatching? Also, how can you tell if the eggs are eyed up if you cannot find them easily? I've looked through the bag and have seen several of what I think are eggs but they are covered in a coating of peat.

I've heard this particular strain is not very colorful but looking at the pictures you guys have posted they look great by my standards. Some photos I've seen online do show very black fish with lots of big spots which I suppose would make the ones posted less colorful.

Is it true that SAA are prone to bloat or succumbing due to being fed too many "rich" foods?

Anything else you feel I may need/like to know whether about origin or husbandry would also be appreciated.

[timebomb]

I don't have the answers to all your questions, Joseph but ever since I moved my Austrolebias nigripinnis to a colder tank, they have been doing really well. Before, I lost whole batches when the weather here got too warm.

Ice and oxygen tablets are a must when you hatch the eggs. One hobbyist told me she doesn't use ice but she puts the hatching tray into her fridge for half an hour. It's also important not to remove the peat when you dunk the eggs or there will be many belly-sliders. I never bother if the eggs are eyed-up or not. I wet them when I think the time is right.

I feed the adults with baby brine shrimps and tubifex worms. So far, I haven't seen any signs of bloating. The adults can vary in colour. Some are all black with little spots while others are more purple with many spots. Males are territorial and are aggressive towards each other but in my tank where there's a lot of space, this isn't a problem.

Here's a pic of my Austrolebias nigripinnis 'Villa Soriano'



Loh K L

[Jakobe]

What do you feed the fry with? Do you use ice with all nigripinnis spec.?

[erikthur]

Do you use ice with all nigripinnis spec.?

Hi there, Jakob
The climate in Singapore is a little bit different than in our part of the world.
But, NGP and other Austrolebias are more to be considered as cold water fishes than tropical.
So I am surprised that someone is successful in keeping them in the tropical climate of SE Asia.
On the other hand someone tried to introduce NGP in the Philippines for mosquito control and it is actually registered as probably successful by Fishbase even if some SAA experts (read Tyrone) are doubtful.
However, I got good hatches recently of 3 Austrolebias species with 20 Celsius water (F1 and F2 from Argentine).

[ruyle]

Here's a pic of my Austrolebias nigripinnis 'Villa Soriano'

Nice fish, nice tank, nice pic, KL!



Bill

[stormhawk]

Joseph, I've never had the nigripinnis but I understand that their fry are pretty small and that eggs collected from a mass spawning of adults can produce numbers of fry that may boggle you.

Ronnie and Au have been raising plenty of them so I suppose they would be best suited to answer your query.

Checking for eyed up eggs isn't easy if the eggs are coated with peat particles but for some of us, the rough guide is about 8 weeks or so in our local room temperature here in Singapore, for the eggs to fully develop. I'm not sure about your average room temperature in your location so incubation period may vary.

About the use of ice and oxygen tablets, I use cold water straight from the fridge instead and coupled with the use of some oxygen tablets by JBL, I've gotten some good results so perhaps you can give it a try.

Austrolebias as a whole are native to the cooler regions of South America, mainly in the countries of Uruguay, Argentina and in some drier regions like the Chaco in Paraguay and parts of southern Brazil.

Although they prefer cooler temperatures, the nigripinnis has been present in SG for the past few years, thanks to the work of some breeders here. I am not sure about the other Austrolebias species but then again, not many of us have tried the other species apart from the nigripinnis.

As for the differences in colour in some pictures online and with some on this forum, its all in the lighting and the setup of their home tank. I have observed from looking at the nigripinnis at Ronnie's home, that they have a bluish iridescent line in both the dorsal and anal fins and the spots are usually iridescent blue or greenish, depending on how you look at it. Different fish seem to give off a different hue, especially in different lighting. The Villa Soriano population is a beautiful one but there are also other nice populations of this species in the hobby.

[nonamethefish]

Thanks for the wealth of information all.

What temperature are you trying to achieve in the hatching container with the ice/refrigeration? By the time these eggs are set to hatch(late Nov.) the average temp in this house will be around 65 degrees. What is the lowest nigripinnis can stand? They could get it even colder if I put them outside though 40 degrees according to someone who's kept them is probably too cold.

Are JBL oxygen tablets available in the US. I've never heard of them. What is the conventional use for them?

Not too sure if anyone of you have it but in the AKA beginners guide their is a rather blurry picture taken by Monty Lehmann of a nigripinnis. Probably what most people think of when they think of the ideal nigripinnis. Based on what I've seen and would guess these fish don't photograph to true colors well?

Also, do these guys take only live and frozen foods?

Thanks!

[stormhawk]

The strain of nigripinnis from Nancãy can survive temperatures of around 5 degrees Celsius I think, if I recall someone saying that somewhere. He kept his in a pond outside his house and the pond freezes over during the winter. In spring when the ice thawed, he found lots of fry and they grew up to be adult nigripinnis!

Now whether that's accurate or not, I'm not sure but its certainly worth a try if you happen to have excess fishes.

JBL O2 tablets should be available in the US. You need to find a distributor in your area for their products and from there you can enquire about product availability. They're supposedly use for packing fishes but I find that the saturated levels of O2 can stress out and kill the fish. So for us, we utilise it for hatching annuals.

I find that the majority of annuals only take live or frozen foods but then again, nothing's impossible if the fish are willing to try other types of foods.

Given different lighting levels and type, plus angle of a shot, you might get all sorts of colour combinations, ranging from white for the iridescent parts, to a dark bluish colour or even green and silver depending on the flash. So yes, its difficult to get them to photograph true to their colours. The best way to know if its true to their colours is that the image that is produced is exactly or approximately in the same colours as you happen to view them with your own eyes.

[whuntley]

Thanks for the wealth of information all.

What temperature are you trying to achieve in the hatching container with the ice/refrigeration? By the time these eggs are set to hatch(late Nov.) the average temp in this house will be around 65 degrees. What is the lowest nigripinnis can stand? They could get it even colder if I put them outside though 40 degrees according to someone who's kept them is probably too cold.

Many Austrolebias live beneath the ice in winter, but I suspect that would be too cold for most captive keeping. I like hatch water in the 50s F, but am not too religious about it. My tap water (from a well) would be perfect, but it needs to reach gas equilibrium with the atmosphere. I can tell that by the way the pH drops as it stands and absorbs CO2.

Are JBL oxygen tablets available in the US. I've never heard of them. What is the conventional use for them?

American hobbyists have not needed them, so I have never seen them available, here. I suspect they are a tropical adaptation to make up for the lower oxygen content of the warmer water there. That's my best guess.

Not too sure if anyone of you have it but in the AKA beginners guide their is a rather blurry picture taken by Monty Lehmann of a nigripinnis. Probably what most people think of when they think of the ideal nigripinnis. Based on what I've seen and would guess these fish don't photograph to true colors well?

Also, do these guys take only live and frozen foods?

Thanks!

In the new beginner's guide, there is a NIG photo on p64, by Monte, that is not a good representation of color based on various NIG I have seen over the years. The black body is pretty typical, but it often has a subtle deep blue or purplish overlay that is indeed difficult to catch in a camera. The spots in that photo are pretty overexposed, so they look more yellow-gold than the usual blue-white. Many killies have subtle and difficult-to-capture colors. Some of them are irridescent and can dominate a photo, disappointing the viewer when he sees the fish in person in overhead light.

The NIG usually has a flat almost velvety black base color, with highly irridescent blue-white spots. I have seen little difference from one collection location to another, but YMMV.

Mine take nearly anything I feed them, but need live, rich food for proper breeding conditioning, I think. All my killies tend to reject the typical grain-based dry foods from the LFS. OTOH, nearly all relish high-grade BS flake and other good dry foods as used mostly in the aquaculture industry.

Wright

[erikthur]

Dear Chief Bloviater,
About the codes:
NIG is Fp (gardneri) nigerianus
Austrolebias nigripinnis is NGP.
My God - I suddenly felt old knowing that by heart.

[whuntley]

Thanks Eric,

The mistake is an old bad habit that I have not been able to break.

Technically, there are no widely accepted TLAs for New World fishes, as ROTOW only covered the Old World killies. In the US it is too easy to ignore NIG for Fp. nigerianus as that isn't a valid species in KMI4 (our US nomenclature "Bible").

[I think most of Europe does recognize it as a distinct species, as do most of our serious breeders.]

Apologies to the group for propagating that one.

Wright

[nonamethefish]

Interesting on the 'Nancay' population. They don't seem to be very common. Would they be a more Southern population of nigripinnis?

Would aerating the water heavily before dumping in the peat be a suitable alternative to oxygen tablets. Maybe it would mimic the rainfall that likely creates high dissolved oxyen levels in the pools.

Wright/stormhawkii : Interesting to hear that that isn't considered a good representation. Any photos you would consider good ones? The thing that interests most about this picture is the apparent size of the spots(or is it just that they are more prominent since they are overexposed). My best guess right now is that they resemble in color scheme an adult male Enneacanthus gloriosus....which also doesn't photograph very well but that is partly because of shyness.

I've found my gardneri to take Hikari micropellets which are fish and krill meal based. I haven't seen any prepared foods lacking grain though. I was thinking that to prevent the "imaginary" problem of bloat I would rotate live and prepared foods.

Just a curious question...but when we mention not mixing species unless they are distantly related...what about species that occur in the same location. Aust. bellottii and nigripinnis seem to occur together quite a bit as do a few other SAA species.

Thanks all for the advice!


And a poor picture of a young male Enneacanthus gloriosus.

[stormhawk]

Hi Joseph,

I'm not sure whether the Nancãy population are of a more southern locality. Yes they're not very common in the hobby. Most NGP populations you see from the hobby are usually the ones commonly sold on Aquabid.

Aerating the water doesn't help. It is the level of dissolved oxygen within the cool water itself that actually helps and the O2 tablets simply saturate the water further.

A good image would be this:



Image copyright Nako Nakov and hosted on www.cynolebias.org

In the wild, nigripinnis are found alongside several other annual species but species like bellottii are actually predators of nigripinnis. So yes, I would not try to mix them if possible.

P.S. I only see Choy calling me stormhawkii but if that's comfortable with you its fine with me.

[timebomb]

Jianyang,

The picture is well-taken but the fish looks undernourished. With my A. nigripinnis, I noticed that besides colour, shapes vary too. Some of them look like the one in your picture. The bodies are long and slim and the heads are rather small. I think they look a lot more lovelier when they are more oval in shape. I tried getting some good pictures of my fish again and these 2 are the best I came up with.



As I've said earlier, the fish are territorial and they fight whenever one gets into space claimed by another. Once, when I kept them in a smaller tank, I saw 2 males with their jaws locked together for a long time. When I separated them, one has his jaw dislocated and he died not long after. My present tank is much bigger so I've not seen locked jaws again. Mostly, it's just some minor skirmishing.



Loh K L

[jbulterman]

Now that I have relocated to warm and tropical southern China (close to Hong Kong) I have been hatching my eggs in the warmer water. The nigripinnis I got from Au were very prolific as were the flammeus. I had two huge hatches of both yesterday in hatching water I left in the Sun and the temps were greater than 90 degrees F.
Sometimes I think the fish are going to do what they want to do no matter what I do. My last batch of nigripinnis fry were raised at 80 degrees F to see if they would grow out faster. I then lowered the temp to lower seventies for spawning.

[stormhawk]

Wow that's a different thing compared to what we're usually doing. I've always thought of the warmer water as being detrimental to the fry during the hatching stage but perhaps its worth a try.

[jbulterman]

We are on "Golden Week" vacation this week, I was funnin' around and decided to see if the higher water temps would cause the eggs to hatch more quickly than usual. I had my eye on the fry constantly in case they got into trouble. It was probably a big enough shock for them waking up in China (I know it is for me!)

JoeB

[stormhawk]

Joe, I suppose the experience is alot different than waking up in Sudan.

Yes it was an experiment I suppose but at least it worked for you. Now all I got to do is to find a spare bag of eggs to test the method with.

[nonamethefish]

Thanks much for the extra photos/info!

Jianyang/stormhawki(we oughtta get a new killie species named after you for this one...hehe): That photo you showed indeed is a good representation of the color which is as I had predicted. Can hardly wait to see these in life!

Jbulterman: Thanks much for sharing your experiences! I'm quite surprised that they took to that well. At what temp were the eggs incubated?

Timebomb: Thanks for going through the effort to get some better photos of your fish I hope mine turn out half as beautiful as yours.

The bag is tagged for incubation for 3 months and is being kept at 75 f. Hope it is right!

[jbulterman]

>Jbulterman: Thanks much for sharing your experiences! I'm quite >surprised that they took to that well. At what temp were the eggs >incubated?

These eggs had 2 months in Dalian and 1 month in Huizhou; I suppose the average was around 80 degrees F between the day and night temps for both places.

Also, I'm not saying they loved it, but they did survive it and appeared quite active (although they might have been scrambling for shade). The thing is, Huizhou is much warmer than Dalian and I'm trying to determine my upper extremes. Also also, being so hot here, I miss the cheap and plentiful daphnia we had up North. I am having to feed all my fish BBS only and that is not my preference. I can't even find any tubifex here. We have only a few fish stores in Huizhou and none that I have found carry live food. In Dalian, we had an entire market of stores devoted to fish and foods. It was my favorite Saturday morning hangout. Oh well, time to stop #itchin' and get back to the fish room; I am working on getting my betta livida's to spawn and so far the wine and XXX movies ain't workin'...

JoeB