Fp. gardneri 'Misaje'

[nonamethefish]

I've just received 2 young pairs of Fp. gardneri nigeranius 'Misaje' as part of a Species Maintenance program. Does anyone here have any exp. with this particular gardneri? Also a few more typical questions.

Would it be fine long term to house the males and females together in this species?

One pair is around the size of wild type guppy males(or H. formosa males...whatever have you to compare...though H. formosa is closer in size) the others pair is bigger...but I can't think of anything to compare em to now.(a bit bigger than a large neon). How long should it take till they start to lay eggs?...till they reach breeding age?

Any other things of interest w these would be appreciated.

[nonamethefish]

Well what would you know? The larger pair is spawning as a type this!

Is it a bad thing to allow them to lay eggs at this young age? I'm thinking of perhaps seperating the pair so the female concentrates on growing instead of producing eggs.

[PohSan]

Hi,

To my personal experience with this fish, there is really not much different with other gardneris. If I remembered correctly (I losed all of them later), they started to breed after two months when they grew to the length of about one inch. Feeding mainly on tubifex worms. I did not separate the male and female, however the hatch rate of first two or three batches of eggs were low (about 2 to 3 out of 10). Later, as the male was more mature, the hatch rate improved to 7 to 8 out of 10.

I kept them in a bare tank with a floating mop. Eggs was collected every alternate day and I used something similar to a ice cube trays to hold the egg. Fry was transferred immediately to a tray with shallow water and fed with microworm on the first two day, followed with BBS.

Hope the above information helps.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

[whuntley]

They are quite similar to gardneri, but are actually a separate species per most modern authorities. The confusing name is because the AKA (i.e., Dr. Ken Lazara) decided to keep the NIG as a subspecies of GAR because the whole mess was in dire need of review. They are listed that way in KMI4, so most of us in the US use the KMI as official for our names.

It is pretty obvious to many of us who have kept both that nigerianus and gardneri really are two different species. They look similar, but have somewhat different behaviour, as I recall.

These are a semi-annual that prefers bottom and substrate spawning. They will spawn better, IME, in sunken mops than in floating mops, and even better in peat. While some of the eggs will certainly water incubate, (as with most semi-annuals) I believe I have gotten better results with NIG by storing the eggs on very damp -- well pretty wet -- peat. YMMV.

I'm trying to remember stuff I did 4 or 5 years ago, and my memory is still my second-shortest thing.

Wright

[nonamethefish]

Thanks for the info guys! I've only seen the two in photos but they do indeed look different...though the line is a bit fuzzy in some cases. It seems to me that the ones I like better(which have more red and larger blotches plus yellow on the fins) tend to be those of Fp. gardneri nigeranius while the blue/green tend to be Fp. gardneri gardneri. Probably isn't correct though.

I found 2 of the eggs they laid in the moss(which functioned like a top mop) and have them in water. May put them on moist peat if I feel the need.

[PohSan]

Hi Joseph,

BTW, when I looked at the only male I have swimming in my community tank, none of the fish come close to the stunning colour of the fish. I really want to restart my line of 'Misaje', please let me know when you have excessive eggs and willing to sell to me. Thanks.

Regards,
Ong Poh San

[nonamethefish]

An update on these guys.

As I expected these first two eggs fungused. Nothing new...and they received some rough handling to remove them from the tangles of moss. I hope to get photos of the male as he looks like he will be a looker when grown up. Already displaying a deep blue body color and red and yellow fins.

Pohsan: I will keep you in mind should I get extra eggs...I'm thinking I should be going by next spring if not sooner.

[nonamethefish]

Here they are

Flash




No flash(closer to life colors)

[stormhawk]

Joseph, your Misaje are looking real nice. Of all of the gardneri subspecies, my favourite is the Fp. gar. mamfensis. These are the ones with alot of spots on the fins and body. However, since the GARs get pretty large and aggressive at times, I can't keep them due to a lack of space. But that doesn't mean I won't try to keep them in the future.

[nonamethefish]

Stormhawk: I haven't seen any other GAR in life but I think these are very nice ones, but not any of my work(these are Doug Ebeling's fish...he's head of the SMP for this species). I agree GAR mamfensis is a nice looker(was the gardneri that I liked best at first)...but in the end I decided that I just had to try this "classic" killie.

[stormhawk]

Kudos to Doug for having bred such nice fish. Some of the Misaje in the hobby are starting to show signs of genetic deterioration. Some grow up with a slight kink in the spine. I must say Doug has done a great job with these fellas.

[Svein]

Hi Joseph

Yes, Fp. nigerianus is very beautiful I haven't your species, but I have kept NIG P-82 for 2 years now

I have 3 males and 3 females together with some Chromapyosemion in a 25 gallon tank, and their behavior a quite peaceful, no really harmful fighting.
Because they are going together with other fish, I don't get many fry, so I "breed" them once a year.
I put a trio in a 3 gallon tank with only peat in it.

i collect the peat after one week, and squeeze the peat a little, and put it a way for 2 1/2 week. I normally get from 60-100 fry
If you will get a lot of fry I will recommend this method, it's easier than collecting egg
Here is one of my male, not much different from yours?
Good luck.


Regards
Svein

[nonamethefish]

Svein: Your adult does indeed resemble my 'Misaje' based on most photos I've seen P82 has more red coloration than 'Misaje' does.

I would like to avoid peat if I can with these guys.

[nonamethefish]

Ok. Good news and bad news on these guys

Good news is that the larger pair is laying more eggs in a yarn mop,

Bad news is that the smaller pair is now half a pair...the female decided to jump after a waterchange...totally unexpected and my first jumping casualty. I'm still kicking myself about it as people always say they are good jumpers!

[nonamethefish]

Update photo of the larger male


So far attempts with water incubation have failed. Will probably try eggs on peat instead.