Heat or oxygen?

[whuntley]

Strong differences between our more temperate situation and the near tropical heat of SG has led me to speculate. That is a form of bloviation that has yet to go through the digestive process.

We never use oxygen tablets to hatch annuals, but you seem to need them.

One thing about warmer water is that it holds less dissolved gasses.

I perceive that many of our aquatic gardeners do better without CO2 than you report, too. Yes, typical aquarium plants are usually carbon limited, but I think we get away without CO2 better than what you seem to be reporting. Unless we are raising Discus or Cardinals, we rarely keep our tanks warmer than 25C and often they are cooler. We keep most non-coastal killies down around 20-22C.

There are many ways to increase the amount of dissolved O2 in a tank. Active photosynthesis is only one of them. Has anyone explored the use of a hydrogen peroxide drip?

Wouldn't it be a gas (sorry, bad joke) if something that simple made Diapterons and jorgenscheeli easy species in your warmer clime?

Wright

[Scott_sg]

Hi Wright,
I get what you mean about a drip system, I have always wondered about the O2 thing, since any excess will quickly dissipate to the atmosphere. But what you are suggesting would keep the O2 levels up, so long as no one overdoses, it would be an interesting experiment.
As to Diapterons and the like I have no idea, I am not really even sure how temperature really effects fish. I would assume that a lot of it is the dissolved O2 levels, but the biochem side of it I have no idea.
I think at some of the tank temperatures here approaching 30C ?F, that some proteins might not work so well in cooler water fish. But that is a guess.
But definitely it would be interesting to see if it works. Hydrogen peroxide is a bit expensive here from memory, but not much would be needed. Drip drip not pour pour.

Scott.

[Morgrid]

I keep all of my fish without heaters (mostly killies and livebearers). The room is heated to about 74° F. I believe this keeps the oxygen content and up and the bacterial decay down. Raising the temperature even a few degrees makes a big difference here. This does create a problem for some species but I personally try to avoid those which require much warmer temperatures or I experiment with them and see if they will do well. I believe that many tank problems get out of hand fast in a warmer environment.

I have talked with several people that use hydrogen peroxide to apparently kill parasites and bacterial problems. I have used it to kill slime algae (cyano-bacteria) myself. Apparently it somehow actually hinders gas exchange. I do not recall the details but I did know the exact phenomenon at one time. Anyway this can backfire as H2O2 can react with organics in the water and somehow burn the gills of your fish, although you would likely be safe with a drip system use caution.

I believe that your water will absorb whatever oxygen it is going to from the surface and that the H2O2 (or other chemical methods) would not really be effective in raising O2 levels above what they would be anyway. As you pointed out the temperature is the main limiting factor as to how much O2 the water will hold. Adding more O2 is like continuing to let the gas pump run once your tank is full, it will just run out and be wasted. Although I can't deny that you might see some limited improvement here I seriously doubt that you will beat the laws of science on this one. Your best bet in my opinion would be greater water agitation or aireation to disperse the oxygen throughout the water rather than at the surface.

[Diapterondave]

Guys saturating a tank with O2 is very easy even in high temps. Wet/dry type filters saturate the water and allow me to keep Diapterons even in high Temps. To me high temps are just fine with diaps I have seen no ill effects what so ever as long as we keep the O2 level saturated by utilizing degassing methods to saturate O2 and strip out other gasses like CO2 as well. My new D.cyanostictum are eating like pigs and are being kept at 78f. This is my 3rd species with the same result. I have not found temperature to have any ill effects at all. This has to be good news for you folks in Singapore.

[keehoe]

Dave, in singapore. 28-30C is normal while we researve "high temperature" to the times when temperature hit above 30C.

Since i started feeding tubiflex, the pair seems to grow much faster.

[Diapterondave]

KeeHoo,

I agree they do love tubifex or in my case black worms. My D.cyanostictum LEC 93/4 are doing fine at 80f. It's been hotter then normal for this time of year. The only difference I see is that they seem to be eating more. Of course they have my overhead trickle filter. Everyone I talk to tell me low temperatures are key. I have kept a few species/locations and I have found the same results. The Diapteron Study group will soon have it's own website www.diapteron.org and i hope you folks in Singapore will be able to join us as well. I belive there is still much to be learned about this group of Killies. For one low temperature is just not needed for them as long as we saturate the water with O2.

[timebomb]

80 degrees F which is about equal to 26.6 degrees C would already be considered cold in Singapore, Dave. In fact, we can't get that temperature in our tanks if not for cooling fans or chillers.

As Kee Hoe said, 28 to 30 C in Singapore is normal. But often, we get heatwaves and the temperature in our tanks rises above 30 C. Before I had cooling fans in my main tank, the temperature there was a constant 33 C. It's hot because of the heat generated by the lights.

I suspect the difference could lie in just a few degrees (Centigrade). Occasionally, you all scare us with talk that in the fishes' natural habitats, temperatures are below 20 C. That's when we start to believe our tanks are simply too warm for them. If the problem is one of oxygen and not of temperature, would a few degrees C make any difference?

Loh K L

[Diapterondave]

I don't know to be honest. 82fa was the highest I ever had them and that was only a few days no harm from what I saw. But with fish a few degrees can be all the difference. I think we can all take encouragement from this however. I too live in the hot part of the USA here in Florida so I can relate to your problems. I do however now feel you at least have a chance, the high 70's to 80 f is allot better then 65 f. I did hear one account of D.cyanostictum breeding like crazy at 53 f. There is much that needs looking into. For me high temps have not been a problem. I hope others can replicate my success so we can perhaps learn more about them.

[keehoe]

Hi Dave, perhaps when i have more than 5 pair, i would give it a try. Let them stay in environment around 30C with bigger volume of water.

One problem with wet-dry filter in singapore is, it harden the water very fast. So much so that we might have to change water 3 times a week to maintain healthy softness of the water for Diapteron "recommended" DH.