Incubating and hatching gardneri eggs

[dageti]

hello everyone,

I have just received a batch of gardneri (presumably uncoded population or aquarium strain, but I didn't ask) eggs from a local killie keeper. there are about 20 of them, all at different development stages but nearly half of them eyed-up.

since these are my very first non-annual eggs (that is, after the australe disaster), I'm keen on knowing about everybody's experiences with GAR. if I should feel I'm not up to the challenge, I'm considering giving the eggs to another more experienced keeper to hatch and raise, keep only a pair of juveniles for myself and let him keep the rest and do what he wants with them. some may find this cowardly and lazy and opportunistic of me but right now my #1 priority is avoiding unnecessary losses.

I did search the web, but quite honestly I'd rather learn something by reading what worked best for you in terms of type and size of hatching containers, water/substrate quality, temperature, lighting etc. all the tips tricks that make such a huge difference between a dedicated community of keepers and the all too generic, simplistic, copycat fact sheets out there (this is of course not aimed at anyone here. I know some of you guys have some excellent websites).

thanks to all,

francesco

[stormhawk]

Okay maybe a little late in replying but I hope its of help.

Hatching Containers:
Standard plastic takeaway trays will do. They're usually made of polypropylene (PP) or polyethylene (PE) I think. Just dunk the peat and wet. Wait for "magic" fry to appear.

Raising Trays:
Same types as above. Label with species name and codes if given to prevent any mixups with any species. Add in Java Moss or some other plants and a few drops of Liquifry to encourage a spurt in the infusoria count. Most GAR fry should be able to handle newly hatched BBS at birth. They grow quick in most cases if given alot of space and frequent water changes.

Water Quality / Substrate:
Gardneri do well in a wide range of water parameters from slightly acidic to a little alkaline. Water should be a little hard but they are OK with most values. As long as they get enough food and the tank is kept clean, they usually are rather happy.

Substrate can be anything from pea gravel to even ADA Aquasoil, if that's what you like. Even peat is accepted by these guys. Bare-bottomed tanks are fine too.

Temperature:
They'll usually be happy in temps. around 24 deg C (maybe slightly lower) all the way up to 29 deg C. Any higher and they get alot sluggish.

Lighting:
Bright, or dark, they're happy either way. If they were raised in a brightly-lit environment, they'll be used to bright lights. If kept in a poorly-lit environment since young, they'll be rather skittish if the lights were too bright.

Food:
They are carnivorous in nature and will take microworms, BBS, grindals, fruit flies when young. As they get older, they'll chow down on tubifex and any other worm foods. Adult brine shrimp is very much taken as well. Basically anything that moves is a food item to them.

I don't know if I've listed enough info but I guess it should do for now. I have very limited knowledge in terms of the Fundulopanchax but gleaning some info from observing how others raise their gardneri, I'd suppose this would be a good start for you.

Let's see if the Fundulopanchax guys will reply. Anyone up to the challenge? KL? Ron? I know these two had GAR N'sukka for ages.

Or perhaps our Chief Bloviator, who does know a thing or two about the water parameters in their native habitat, if previous posts were anything to go by.

[whuntley]

Or perhaps our Chief Bloviator, who does know a thing or two about the water parameters in their native habitat, if previous posts were anything to go by.

They are savannah fish that do tolerate (want?) harder water than many in the rain forest. IDK what is available in Rome, but I have observed that folks in 450 ppm hard water in San Jose did far better with them than the San Francisco or Alameda breeders with 50 ppm tds. pH is meaningless to the fish, as they cannot feel it anyway. Best if it is below 7,5 or so as that keeps ammonia problems away.

That said, they are usually very tolerant of a wide range of water conditions, and are tougher than most when it comes to chlorine/ammonia burns. Combined with the big babies that take bbs right away, they are a lot easier for the beginner than many of our other fishes.

Wright

[dageti]

thank you very much Jianyang and Wright,

the old eggs now have fins and are eating BBS but I'm expecting more eggs from Diego soon, so your replies are much appreciated, I want to do much better with the next batch. in the meantime, I learned that they are "N'sukka", I'm glad to hear that both Ron and Kwek Leong had those for a long time, their experience would be of great value to me.

I got very few fry from the first batch of eggs. half of them, I gave to a friend. I put the rest in a small PE tray floating in one of my tanks, at about 26° C, with a bit of Java Moss, trying to space them out. 30% were clearly not fertilized/opaque, others fungused away during the first days of incubation. they came in a vial with water, from what I read about GAR eggs, more would have probably survived if they had come in peat. when they hatched (minutes after I put an airline in), I had 2 belly sliders and a few 'stillborn' fry. the surviving ones took BBS from day #1 and have been eating greedily since. they're now 1 cm long and apparently in great shape.

for incubation, I used seasoned water from my longest running tank, with GH 6, KH 5. unfortunately I don't know about TDS because I have nothing to measure them. we have very good tap water in Rome on the whole, but maybe a bit too much on the hard/alkaline side for some fish (my speculation). I may add some of it gradually to the raising tray though, since you both recommended hard water for GAR, and I'm actually keeping them in soft water.

please do point out to me any mistakes you find in the method that I described so I won't repeat them with the next batch of eggs, or anything important that I may have omitted to do. I may also ask Diego to send the eggs in peat instead of water if that can improve their survival chances.

[I'm training my skills with the relatively easy species while I'm waiting for the Chromaphyosemion eggs! wish me luck on those, I've read the BIT and BIV species maintenance threads so many times now I know them by heart ]

regards,

francesco

[timebomb]

Francesco,

Although I had the Fundulopanchax gardneri N'sukka for a long time, I never picked a single egg. I never needed to because fry appeared regularly in good numbers in my heavily planted tanks. I would suggest you let them breed naturally in tanks with plenty of floating plants and moss. After all, in their natural habitats, no one ever pick the eggs

Among all the Killies I've ever kept, I think this is the easiest species. They are not fussy about water conditions and are very tough. Hot, cold, high or low Ph, it doesn't seem to make the slightest difference to them. They are great jumpers though and once, I found one at the bottom of my chair when I was sitting at my computer. It had flip-flopped its way several metres across my living room from its tank in the balcony.

Although always hungry, the adults won't eat the fry. Once, during feeding time, I saw an adult gulped down a fry only to spit it out immediately. However, that does not necessarily mean they won't eat smaller fish or even, fish of equal size. I've also seen an adult N'sukka swallowed one of my Forest Halfbeaks which was almost as big, only to choke on it and die.

Loh K L

[dageti]

Francesco,

Although I had the Fundulopanchax gardneri N'sukka for a long time, I never picked a single egg. I never needed to because fry appeared regularly in good numbers in my heavily planted tanks. I would suggest you let them breed naturally in tanks with plenty of floating plants and moss.

this is exactly how they are kept by the person who sent me the eggs and how I plan to keep them when they've grown to a decent size. thank you for the additional info on their alarming appetite for large prey. I am sorry about your GAR and your halfbeak, but I couldn't help thinking I would have choked on it myself, regardless of the size: those critters really look like they were designed to stick in your throat!

francesco