Spawning Sand

[Scott_sg]

Ok I have just been packing notho eggs, I remember reading some articles online about using fine sand for spawning. I think I saw an article from Tyrone on this issue. It might even have been discussed here somewhere.

But anyway has anyone used this method?

Has anyone tried this in Singapore?

If so where would I find the sand here?

I am familiar with green sand from metal casting, it is a very fine sand they use from rivers to get a nice finish. But I would have no idea where to find such things locally. I could go over to Malaysia I guess and start digging over there, but they already think Singapore steals enough dirt.

Any input or comments would be appreciated. Personally I don't mind peat, but being naturally lazy I liked the idea of collecting the eggs easier - faster.

Scott.

[stormhawk]

We've got commercially available fine "river sand" from brands like Europet being sold locally here in Singapore.

I use it primarily for my catfishes which love to dig about in the sand, but I don't think I'd want to use it for spawning nothos or any annual killies. The thought of its abrasiveness just puts me off.

I'm sticking to coco-peat for now.

[timebomb]

Scott,

It so happens when I was doing some tidying up recently, I threw away my last 2 bags of fine sand or I'll give them to you. Sia Meng who used to be an active member of this forum gave the sand to me a year or so ago.

I've tried the fine sand method once but I don't find it easier than using peat moss. When we collect our peat moss, we simply check for eggs, dry the peat and bag it. The fine sand method involves stirring the sand, picking the eggs and storing them in peat moss. It's more troublesome. However, the method is very useful if you need to know how many eggs are there exactly.
I've not tried it yet but I've heard of Killifish breeders using a sieve to separate the eggs from the sand. It should work as fine sand will fall through a sieve, leaving only the eggs behind.

Loh K L

[TyroneGenade]

Hi Scott,

If you can email me, I will try send you a pdf copy of my BKA article on the subject. You need to find a very fine sand that is not too abbrassive. Pool filter sand, or any fine filter sand would work.

tt4n

[RonWill]

Has anyone tried this in Singapore? If so where would I find the sand here?

Scott, I'm getting lazier too but still have the same fine grit sand from Sia Meng. Intended that for my Thorens "TD125 LB" turntable project (replacing lead shots in plinth with sand for resonance control) but temporarily shelved it from lack of time.

If you wish to compare results with annual spawning in sand, come pick up what you need and we can get our notes together. Ought to be easier than searching for those damn eggs in peat!

[selena]

Hi Scott,,

Wow! you collecting Notho's eggs. That was fast! What Notho was it? Is it the first bag of eggs since your buying spree.

I tried once spawning my fulminantis over a cute little breeding bowl of sand. It was borrowed from my hamsters bathing sand. The fulminantis trio had lots of fun in it and collecting eggs were a breeze using a 40 cents sieve. The sand just flow through the holes. The only thing I wasn't too please was the tiny grains of sand sticking on to the eggs. Had a hard time removing them. Did I get any fry from that lot? Memory too short, simply can't remember

Go ahead experiment all the ideas in your head. Never try and you will never satified the curiosity in you.

---------------------------------------
Selena

[keehoe]

Hi all, i tried that a year ago with my Notho.Egg (AS). When i collect eggs, all i have to do is pour some water into the bowl, shake and pour the water out through a coffee filter. Near 100% eggs were collected and less than 1% of sand remain with the egg in the coffee filter.

I stop doing that after realise the sand is not as fine as it suppose to be. More over spawning on peat is easier. Just have to bag the whole peat with eggs and only worry about it 4 weeks later.

Oh, using a big turkey-baster is another quick way of doing that as the sand will very quickly drop off of the turkey-baster but not the egg.

[erikthur]

I also tried it about a year ago and got lots off eggs that way.
But the harvesting takes some time.
I later changed to mops in pots since that was an easier method to harvest the eggs.
And at that time the eggs were not eaten.
Now I switched back to peat because of just that.

[selena]

Hi Scott,

There is an easy way that I do when collecting and counting eggs. The procedure makes the eggs glow out like amber/jewels in the medium. Do a search on the archives. The details are a bit lengthy and I am poor in composing proper sentences. E-mail me if you are interested. (I am getting very fragile, don't think I could withstand being shot down again )

-----------------------------------
Selena

[Scott_sg]

Hi everyone, and Selena

I think I will just play around and see what i can come up with. I know there are some sands that are very fine, almost like talcum powder. They use it to get a nice finish on metal castings. But I would not try beach sand - it is bad enough when it gets in my pants, let alone laying eggs in the stuff, so I will have to get back over to you Ronnie, and we can compare our experiments.

I was also wondering about using the fine peat dust stuff, like sifted peat, might be messy though, but I might try it out on Simps, since they love to play in the mud. Nothos don't seem to care, they just have sex anywhere.

Thanks again,
Scott.

[timebomb]

(I am getting very fragile, don't think I could withstand being shot down again )

Now, who would do something like that, Selena? I think it's downright despicable to shoot a lady like you down and if I find the guy who's been doing this, I will personally wring his neck.

Loh K L

[whuntley]

I would help KL wring it, but my reach may be inadequate.

Back on topic:

I have tried sand, glass beads and Jersey Greensand for spawning media. I gave up on all of them.

Regular fine sand is too rough on the eggs, I think, and causes many to go bad.

Jersey Greensand (from the nursery) is better, but still didn't give as good results as peat pellets.

The fine glass beads seemed ideal, until a pair of Camp. brucei mistook them for tiny eggs. I found the only pair in the Bay Area dead, with stomachs hard as a rock from the beads they had consumed! I won't try that again.

Wright

[stormhawk]

I have an old issue of JAKA somewhere from the 1970s. It was a special issue on SAAs and in it was an article about spawning media. One of types mentioned was green marl sand. I don't know what's that though.

Fine silver sand was mentioned as a good alternative to spawning annuals but the best results still came from peat moss.

Finely sifted peat can be obtained from both coco-peat and ordinary peat moss. The only problem is that its harder to handle compared to the larger particles. The fish don't have problems making a big mess though.

[whuntley]

I have an old issue of JAKA somewhere from the 1970s. It was a special issue on SAAs and in it was an article about spawning media. One of types mentioned was green marl sand. I don't know what's that though.

Glauconite. It is what our local nurseries call "Jersey Greensand." It is a micaceous material that continues to break down as you try to wash out all the dust, so it is an endless task. Because it is very soft and cleaves flat in microscopic leaves, it is pretty gentle on eggs, as opposed to the granular stuff in silica sand or coco peat. It is more like the texture of fine peat, in that sense.

Unfortunately, it usually is not ground quite fine enough to use a net for reliable egg separation. I always stirred the surface layer and swirled the water over it so eggs would settle on top for collection or could be netted from mid water. YMMV. It is dark green but almost black, when wet, so the eggs are easy to spot.

I think the name comes from it's major deposits in NEW Jersey, not the island. It is iron and potash rich, and makes a great rooting medium. It also has a very high CEC, like zeolite and peat. Read all about it at:

http://www.basic-info-4-organic-fert...greensand.html


Wright