Look! what i found at Payar Lebar MRT station.

[keehoe]

Look at its tail.... lovely isnt it?

[RonWill]

Beautiful specimens! Glad for you that the package has landed. Kee Hoe, where does the egg-queue start??

[keehoe]

Ron, now is still early to setup a queue. Got a feeling that this is going to be very common in singapore. Maybe due to their similarity of LIN.

To my surprice, the GEO eggs that comes with the same package is very healthy. Anyone wants to join me keeping Diapteron should give this guy a try.

[stormhawk]

Kee Hoe, why'd you have to go all the way to Paya Lebar MRT just to pick up the fish?

That's a very nice bunch of zimiensis.

[keehoe]

Because USPS service. They deliver without calling in advance. So miss the delivery. ..... etc etc. The postal service in singapore is very effective. But lack of a personal touch.

Sorry about the photo quality. Will do a retake when they are out of ICU (intensive Care Unit) once they produce enough to sustain the next generation and some to backup breeder.

[stormhawk]

Generally you can just call and ask them to resend the package the next day. It worked for me last time when I missed something that was sent by registered mail. Of course, having the box sent to the office would be much better since there will be someone to sign for it on your behalf.

No worries on the pic quality, they're good enough.

[Scott_sg]

Nice fish Keehoe, hope they have settled in well for you. And I was thinking something completely different when you said "look what i found at Paya Lebar..."

Yes I was thinking of cheap shoes also ... made in China, Indonesia, Thailand, Philipines... !! And of course the main post office over there.

Looking forward to hearing how you get on with them and when you get the time some details on the setup you are using.

Scott.

[keehoe]

Thanks Scott, due to the little temperature requirement and the ease of setup. I simply setup the chiller only for the middle partition of the 4 feed tank and the the both partition at the side cold down via termo transfer through the glass partition. This way anything wrong happen in one tank would not transfer to another.

Result 24-26 on both side. 23 in middle. 23C for my diapteron and incubation of other eggs. 24-26 for EXO and ZII at the side.

Last night collected 4 eggs from ZII's Moss. This morning found another one on the moss. Going to setup a floating breeding box in each tank for preparation of the male/ female for breeding.

I am trying to incubate the 4 collected eggs in room temperature in Methyl.blue solution. While the rest in 23C incubation box. Going to hardware shop tomorow to get parts for DIY overflow box from top to bottom. That would give me 3 more chiller controlled tank. Which i will use for keeping the young of Diapteron and EXO,ZII. Will keep the EXO and ZII fry together since they can be easily identify when they are mature.

[stormhawk]

Kee Hoe, I would not try to keep Epiplatys with Aphyosemion fry. The Epiplatys fry may try to devour the Aphyosemion fry.

[timebomb]

Kee Hoe,

I like to ask you for a favour. If you can breed the ZIIs successfully, please let me have a pair or some eggs.

During the early days of this forum, Bill Ruyle went through a lot of trouble and expense acquiring the eggs of this fish for Ronnie and I. Unfortunately, neither of us were successful in breeding them. I feel I owe Bill a debt to propagate lots of ZIIs so that I can get some to him when he moves to Thailand.

Loh K L

[keehoe]

Hi KL, dare not promise you anything as this is still very early to do that. I had collected some eggs. In fact i also bought a bag of egg with the same shipment and this morning a fry just hatch and i raising it carefully now.

Once it is more stable, i will pass some to Ron to back me up.
If i have enough will pass some to you also. Current observation show that they are very sensitive to temperature. 25C seems to be best for them.

Summary: Sure no problem. As long as the fish remain in hobbist hand and not in commercial propagation.

[RonWill]

Kee Hoe,
IMHE, the zimensis, primigenium, exigoideum and striatum prefer temps 26ºC and lower. During the time I had the ZII, they were slow to color up and even at 5cm, I didn't manage to collect a single viable egg. Good luck with yours and yes, I'll be waiting so Bill will not be disappointed when he is in LOS.

You will find Bill's contribution at "erratum: Ep fasciolatus zimiensis SL89 not SL99".

[keehoe]

Took me a while to finish reading the 7 page long postings that last for nine months since march 2004. I i should expect fry to grow into breedable size in 6 month?

The fish are spawning and the eggs looks viable. Spoted one on Java moss and didn't bother to take it out as i wanted to try natural setup. PH:6, Temperature:25, Hardness:450ppm

The water was tinted with peat pellet (or peat ball if you researve the word pellet for jiffy) that were place into the tank to soften the water.

Little white thing grow from the lips of everyone of them. I think is due to aggressive behavious. I should really separate them.

[keehoe]

Oh My GOD. They develope cotton mouth disease. Anyone use the medicine:Befurun (Nifurpirinol) before?

Does Odimor/ Desamor cure this bacteria infection? Desamor is for curing fungus infection but i think it is yellowish green in colour. Should i try use that first as it is relatively "safe" as i have stronger confidence in them not to kill the fish.

Help~~~~~

[whuntley]

Flexibacter columnaris is a gram positive bacterium, and responds well to either Chloramphenicol (chloromycetin) or acriflavin.

I haven't the foggiest idea what the active ingredient in Odimor/ Desamor may be, and I won't medicate with anything if I do not know. [If not in the Merck Index, it is pure snake oil, to me.]

Acriflavin (Trypaflavin) does turn the water yellow. 5 ml of stock solution in each liter of water for two to four days is called for. !0 ml may be used, but some species just don't tolerate it.

Most will tolerate that first antibiotic, but use extreme care to dose adequately for the proper period, to avoid creating resistant strains of other bacteria that just might be in the water. Some of those can bite you and you want good defense, if they do.

Wright

[keehoe]

Thanks Wright. Did some checking on the web and some mention that Acriflavin might affect reproduction of fish. Which might not be desirable.

Some suggested Kanamycin.

Whatever what medicine is best for curing it. The most important factor is the availability. Quite reluctant to use antibiotic. I suppose UV filtration would help somewhat. The fishes are still feeding and breeding. Should i just keep the water clean and see if things improve?

Ron, how was your experience with PimaFix/ Melafix?

[Scott_sg]

Hi Keehoe,
Sounds nasty, so I will give some tips but it is really a judgement call.
If possible bring the temperature down a degree or two to slow the actual rate of progress of the disease. Slowly.
Also increase aeration and water flow, from the mouth the disease will spread to the gills, so get the oxygen content way up, also the water movement will help.
Normally some salt in the water - but I have no idea of how Diapterons handle that.
Kanamycin will work but I have no idea where you will get these things, perhaps a better bet would be erythromycin or streptomycin, you might even have some of these laying around the house since doctors like to give lots here. Amoxicilin you might have around also, but I am not so sure of the details on this one but I "think" it is similar to the above.
I would not normally recommend playing around like this, but it is kind of an emergency for you. At the worst go see a GP or vet or your work colleague with flu.
There are other treatments such as Potassium Permanganate, but that is very risky in my opinion.
Acriflavine would be good also, I think the fertility problems really only come about from prolonged exposure. But if it is early stages I would use that, in later stages it wont really hurt but it wont help so much once the disease spreads internally.
Oh and if you do use the antibiotics, don't mix different types.

They are some ideas for you, so I hope it helps. But I would not wait. Good luck with the fish!

Scott.

[Scott_sg]

Just to add to what I wrote above before I cop any abuse.
I would certainly never under normal circumstances recommend playing around with antibiotics. But under the circumstances, rare fish, and they probably cost a lot in the first place let alone shipping them half way around the world. They are also small fish.
So that is why I would suggest doing everything possible for them. Also from my experience the disease can progress fast, and is normal fatal unless some action is taken in small fish. And normally by the time it is looking "cottony" it means the disease has spread throughout the fishes system, the gills and then the rest of the internal organs.
In this case to me it seems like the lesser of two evils.

my 2.996x10^8 cents worth
Scott.

[RonWill]

Ron, how was your experience with PimaFix/ Melafix?

Pimafix, from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc, treats fungal infection, internal and external bacterial infections. It is a potent concoction but treat early and dose with care.

In the event of a really bad infection, I alternate treatment with metronidazole. Called our in-house Doc and in his opinion, acriflavin is quite effective for columnaris.

IIRC, the 'Japanese Yellow Powder' and AquaFuran (Aquarium Münster), both Nifurpirinol based, can also be considered. Treat quickly and update us.

[keehoe]

Guys, i am preparing for the worst. Anyone know where i can find 1cc syringe with needle and injection grade tetracycline? Or should i just send them to the inhouse doctor shall the worst happen.

The fish are feeding and due to their behavious i had also put in breeding mop as the male EXO chases the bloated female and clamps its fin on her.

Had dose the tank with Melafix and Pimafix. As of its ingredient, Melaleuca numero, pimenta racemosa respectively. Bann for the reason of possibility of causing cancer. (Albino ZII and EXO soon?). Realise that ZII fry is able to handle Singapore december climate quite well. So, another backup.