A. Splendopleure (Tiko Green) Female

[SQUEAK]

Hello all,

I recently received a male/female pair of the fish named in the title. They have now been in their tank for 3 weeks. First, some information:

Tank:
5.5 Gallon (US)
Sponge filtration
Driftwood & cave
Plants: Dwarf Hairgrass, Wisteria, and one I don't know the name of.
Fish: 1 male Tiko Green, 1 female Tiko Green, 1 Otocinculus
pH: 7.1-7.2
10 watt fluorescent bulb
Cycled tank

Here are some pictures of the fish and tank. I apologize for the large size of the pictures, but I have to run to class again (just came home to clean tanks & write this), so I didn't have time to resize the pictures. The first three pictures are the most recent ones, the last two I took when the killifish first arrived.

The male seems to be doing quite well. It is not easy for me to get him to feed, but he eventually grudgingly eats frozen/dried food. He has taken to the tank well I think, although I rarely can see him - he's always behind the driftwood. Fins extended, will swim around the tank when I'm not right next to it.

The female was alright for a good while (a couple of weeks), and accepted food much more easily than the male. As of the last few days, she constantly hides underneath the filter. Won't come out to feed or explore her surroundings.

When she occasionally does come out, the male is always near her, but never seems to attack. Today, she looked a bit thinner than I remember, and her fins look a bit frayed (ragged). I had to lift the filter to even find her, didn't realize she was still under it.

I visually checked her for parasitic infections like ich, but I cannot see anything that looks really out of line, other than the fins. Swimming looks normal. First time with killifish, so I'm not sure what can go wrong with them, anyone have ideas as to what it could potentially be, or what I could try to remedy this (this isn't normal is it?).

Thank you

[stormhawk]

Your pH levels are not optimal for Chromaphyosemions. Try to lower it a little using filter peat to bring it down to say 6.4 or so, thereabouts. I'll leave the Chromaphyosemion keepers here to tell you more about their water requirements.

Ragged fins means that the male may have been battering her a tad bit. He might be ready to spawn, but she might not be and this may cause the male to drive her on overzealously.

Separate the pair for the time being, condition back the female to health before re-introducing her to his tank. If its not a bacterial infection you should not have any risk of losing them but this is just my guess.

As with most killies, these fellas don't quite like frozen or dried food and that diet is inadequate for their nutrition. You will have better luck feeding them with live foods.

[SQUEAK]

Hi,

Well, at least I added water - got something right!

I have set up a second (smaller) tank, added boiled peat moss to it, and am waiting for it to settle & return to room temperature. I'll have to figure out how to lower the pH of the other tank, for the time being.

I don't know what I can do about live foods though.

[mk_ultra]

Wardley's sells water conditioner that will put you at 7 or 6.5pH. It dechlors and buffers. Or you can try mixing some tap water with distilled.

My Chrom. love frozen BBS and live blackworms.

[whuntley]

I have never found Chromaphyos to give a darn about pH. In that, they are like all other killifish.

What they don't like is ammonia, and that is often higher at high pH, but negligible in well-planted tanks or tanks that have frequent water changes and well-aged biofilters. They will readily reproduce at pH above 8, but not if the ammonia isn't 100% removed, somehow.

[BTW, don't go out and buy an ammonium/ammonia kit. We are talking hundreds of times lower levels than they can hope to measure.]

Another thing I have found interferes with reproduction is high amounts of the divalent ions, like Calcium and Magnesium. Apparently high GH hardens the chorion or something, and makes hatching difficult or impossible. I would suggest adding RO or distilled water, if your GH is much above about 8 or 10 degrees. You can try to soften the water with zeolite or peat, but may need to add a bit of potassium to balance out the increased sodium that results.

My advice is to stop fussing over pH, which doesn't ever have any direct effect, and pay attention to fixing the things that are important.

Sermon Mode <OFF>

Wright

[dageti]

You can try to soften the water with zeolite or peat, but may need to add a bit of potassium to balance out the increased sodium that results.

Wright,

could you please elaborate on that? I don't use zeolite but I'm very interested in understanding how peat does increase sodium levels in the water. I often use peat and even in water with KH near 0 I assume the peat itself will buffer the solution. I've never had any problems so far, but I know that electrolyte imbalance is a dangerous thing.

Francesco

[whuntley]

Peat, like zeolite, exchanges monovalent ions for divalent ions to reduce hardness. Quite often, the dominant ion that comes in with the peat is sodium, but it sometimes is ammonium which can be a huge problem, itself, in higher-pH, harder water.

This is why we usually boil the peat and rinse thoroughly in tap water. That renders it much less chemically active in our local water, encourages it to sink readily, removes fines, and precludes release of that huge burst of ammonium that can be quite deadly.

If you have very soft water (GH<4, KH is irrelevant as it has nothing whatsoever to do with hardness) the amount of potassium is also pretty likely to be low, too. Adding sodium can be anything from mildly poisonous to deadly, under those circumstances. I usually add a little Seachem "Equilibrium" to any very soft water, just to avoid the electrolyte imbalance that can happen before you realize it.

In particular, many cell transport processes seem to require both sodium and potassium. Absence of either can be a problem, I think.

Wright

[SQUEAK]

Mr. Huntley,

I did boil/rinse the peat before adding it to the tank, and hopefully there wasn't a rise in ammonia. Do you have an approximate value of how many ml per gallon you used of the Seachem? I will look out for that today.

The tank may be a bit underplanted. There are 4 Wisteria, a total of 8 shoots of my unknown plant (I plant them in groups of 2-3), and Dwarf hairgrass. I have java moss on order, hopefully it will come Monday or Tuesday, it is supposed to be shipped out today.

I change water twice a week in my tanks. I do actually have an ammonia/ammonium test, that I needed while I was doing a fishless cycle.

Finally, two questions:

1. Will the use of Seachem have the same effect as using distilled/RO water?

2. On the female A. Splendopleure, does her rear fin naturally have 3 points on it, one in the middle, and one on each end of the fin? The male seems to only have two that I can see (not that I can see him very often). She seems to be recovering decently, although still afraid of me. Her fins look much more rounded.

[whuntley]

Mr. Huntley,

I did boil/rinse the peat before adding it to the tank, and hopefully there wasn't a rise in ammonia. Do you have an approximate value of how many ml per gallon you used of the Seachem? I will look out for that today.

I moved away from the soft water of Modesto several years ago, so no longer remember the exact amount. As I recall, I added enough to raise GH to about 4 degrees, which is a safe level for most rainforest fishes. I would add more for Nothos, most livebearers, etc.

snip...

Finally, two questions:

1. Will the use of Seachem have the same effect as using distilled/RO water?

2. On the female A. Splendopleure, does her rear fin naturally have 3 points on it, one in the middle, and one on each end of the fin? The male seems to only have two that I can see (not that I can see him very often). She seems to be recovering decently, although still afraid of me. Her fins look much more rounded.

1. Absolutely the opposite. It will raise essential electrolytes to safe levels. Distilled or RO water alone can be most unhealthy. They are fine as additives to harder tap water, but should never be used alone. They are exactly why products like "Equilibrium" and "RO Right" are made.

[I wish I had all the discus I have seen stores kill because they did not understand that!]

BTW, the product I suggested is "Equilibrium," a powder. Seachem is just the name of the company that produces and sells it. Follow label directions.

2. No. Her caudal should be smoothly rounded, as I recall. She has suffered some damage, apparently.

Wright

[nonamethefish]

I keep A. splendopleure of a different location and found them relatively undemanding. My water is ph around 7.4 and they managed to spawn and produce fertile eggs.

For that female, more plants should help, and if you use live food offer it on both sides of the tank. If things are looking desperate you may want to seperate the female out till she is back in good shape.

[SQUEAK]

I keep A. splendopleure of a different location and found them relatively undemanding. My water is ph around 7.4 and they managed to spawn and produce fertile eggs.

For that female, more plants should help, and if you use live food offer it on both sides of the tank. If things are looking desperate you may want to seperate the female out till she is back in good shape.

Hi,

the female is currently seperated into a small isolation tank, I don't think she would have lived in the main tank. I've got some moss on order, but there's a good chance I will need more plants (may need to remove either the rock or driftwood from the tank to make room).

That's it for now - I'm off to a friend's concert for the night, should be a good time.

[SQUEAK]

Hello all,

As an update, after the female appeared to be recovered, I decided to add her back into the tank. Unfortunately, essentially the same thing had happened within a day. She retreated into a tight area (a nook under a piece of driftwood), and refused to come out. Last night though, she and her (future?) mate were together in the java moss.

I saw things essentially as hopeless with those circumstances, so she is back in her small isolation tank for now. She was isolated from April 25th to May 8th, and today had to be returned to the tank. I guess she will have to stay in that tank for a while longer.

[RonWill]

Peter,
With some wild bettas, I practice 'reverse introduction'. It simply means leaving the female in the main tank while the male goes into isolation.

Reintroduce the male only when she's all better and see if that works for you. Good luck and I look forward to receiving eggsy updates!

[whuntley]

I agree strongly with Ron on this point. Let the sub-dominant fish "own" the territory, so introducing one that tends to be more dominant is much less shocking.

The other way around can sometimes be a disaster.

Wright

[SQUEAK]

Hi,

Sorry, I have been out all evening (now getting ready for another sleepless night of homework ). I will try reverse-introduction with these fish, and lets hope that it works better than the previous attempt. Thank you both for the suggestion!

[RonWill]

...I will try reverse-introduction with these fish, and lets hope that it works better than the previous attempt

yoo... hoo.... Peter, you still with us? Any updates? If all is well with the pair, kicking off and spawning, put me on the egg-queue.

BTW, just when I thought spawning season is over, I'm still getting a few fry from the Tiko (Orange phenotype). If this continues, I'll be good for an egg trade!

[SQUEAK]

Ronnie,

I'm afraid all of the news is bad, I never made it to the point of reverse introduction. Unfortunately, the female died very suddenly, and to be honest I am still uncertain as to the cause of her death. She had been accepting dried bloodworms, live ants, and the very starting of my grindal worm culture. She was still in the small isolation tank I had set up, and up to that point had seemed to be making a good recovery.

It was surprising to say the least, I left for a 3 hour lab in the morning (after checking in on the killifish for both tanks), and didn't notice anything wrong at that time, however neither are very active at 7:30 in the morning. Four hours later when I returned, she had 'belly-upped,' so to speak.

The male is still with me, although Mr. Huntley had expressed interest in taking him in - an offer which remains open to him, should he choose to accept. The male is living, but now that he is on his own has become lethargic, and chooses not to swim around. His feeding patterns have been declining, and I'm still trying to figure out what could be going wrong.

Unfortunately, it is now 2:30 AM here, and I have 5 hours of finals coming up at 8 AM . The late nights of studying seem to be my life these days! I am still around on this forum, but I have mostly been reserved to reading, instead of posting & interacting with other members.

Edit: This day just keeps getting worse it seems. Unfortunately, my male also passed away today (Unsure of exact cause I'm afraid). In a rather morbid sense, I guess the offer to Mr. Huntley is no longer open.

I had been concerned yesterday, but did not realize that it would progress so fast, and the last week I have been absolutely swamped with work. This is my final exams period, so stress levels are running high. Sorry I can't write more now - I've had almost no sleep, and have to prepare for another exam tomorrow.

Thank you