mosses to ID

[zobek]

It's my first message on this forum, so I want to say Hi, so Hi

On vacation in Poland I found some mosses.

First is, as we think on our polish forum, Fontinalis a. gigantea. Do you agree Moss is growing in my tank, so it can survive in warm water.









And second moss, witch is common in Poland. Our administrator propor has it in his tank, and it is growing well.






I know, that it is hard to ID moss form pictures, but maybe you can do it

P.S. Sorry for my english, I'm still learning

[timebomb]

Hi, Zobek,

Welcome to killies.com.

Your English is fine. We understand you perfectly. As you said yourself, it's always difficult to identify moss from pictures but I think you're right about the first one. It's probably Fontinalis antipyretica var. gigantea. This variety of Willow Moss has much larger leaves than the normal Willow Moss(Fontinalis antipyretica var. antipyretica). Satu who lives in Finland sent me some of the "gigantea" a while ago and after the professor has examined the moss, I gave it all to Bioplast fish shop. Here's a picture of the "gigantea" in their display tank:



As for the second moss, it's probably Leptodictyum riparium or what is commonly known here as Stringy Moss.

You mentioned that the water in your tank is warm. How warm is warm, Zobek? What's your temperature like?

Loh K L

[zobek]

Water in ma tank has about 24*C (I don't know how much is i in F)

What about second moss, I don't think it's stringy moss. Firstly because I found Leptodictyum riparium in another lake and it is different. Secondly because this moss is flat (I don't know how to name it in english). It has leaves in the same surface (?).
In my tank it is growing very fast, and it has still the same shape, as I found it in lake.
I hope that propor will help me to describe this moss, so you will know more about it.

If you want to know something more, what can you help in ID, ask, I will try to answer.

[propor]

Hi!

I am sure that this moss isn't Leptodictyum riparium. It is flat( has leaves in the same surface) under water and on land too. In our aquaria it grows fast , keep the same shape, but diameter of fronds is a little smaller.
It is the same moss I wrote in the thread:

http://www.killies.com/forum/viewtop...077&highlight=

In one pond, in my city, I found this moss together with true Stringy moss and after months in my aquarium they don't look the same at all.
In aquaria this moss has tendency to grow horizontaly to somewhat upward.
On the other hand, L. riparium grows close vertically.

This moss, in wild, is frequently close rooted in rocks, wood or even beton. I found it under water, on a beton edge of fountain, even - it is common.
It is often rooted at all length of frond.
It can survive high temperatures (28 -30?*C) in our aquaria. This summer was very warm in Poland.

There exist possibility that this moss is really local variety/form (taxonomic terms) of L. riparium

Can one form/variety transform to another after a time

Photos, no good quality :






Unfortunately, I'm not good aquatic gardener, and I can't show You newest photos - I have big algae problem . I think , zobek after weeks will show You guys this moss at better photos and better condition.

[timebomb]

Dear Robert & Zobek,

I still think it's L. riparium and I have reasons to support my observation.

One, the professor has said that L. riparium, just like Singapore Moss (Vesicularia dubyana) is highly variable in nature. In other words, it can appear in different forms. Science, as I've said recently, isn't concerned about looks. Bryologists also don't care much for growth patterns. Whether the moss grows vertically or horizontally isn't important to them. As far as they are concerned, if the cells look the same, it's the same moss.

Two, L. riparium is common in temperate countries. The professor said it's practically *all over the shop*, if you know what I mean.

Three, Robert said the moss looks like the one Kenny showed us earlier in this thread. The professor has already identified Kenny's Moss to be L. riparium.

Having said all that, I would like to add that if you're sure the moss isn't L. riparium, I'll be happy to bring it to the professor for you. Send me a sample.

Loh K L

[zobek]

It is sure that we can't be sure that it isn't stringy moss.
I thing that, because I found stringy in different places and different forms, but in my tank it always looks the same. I have this moss and L. riparium in the same tank, so I can compare them. They don't look the same at all.
This moss is different. It don't change its shape.
I have it in my tank about month and it still looks the same, as I found it. That's why I thing that it isn't stringy moss.
But as You say in nature mosses can looks different in others places, so we can't deny, that its L. riparium.

[propor]

Can You guys give me a link to microscopic photos of leaves of Leptodictyum riparium. I saw it somewhere, but now I can't find it.

Have somebody got in aquarium form of L.riparium which is distinctly different from what we can usually see in the net?

If our moss is a form/variety of L.riparium, it means that there are genetic differences to popular form?
Is it thruth,that L.riparium have smooth edge of leaves ( not serrated) ?

[timebomb]

Robert,

Are you referring to the pictures in this thread?

I'm afraid you won't be able to tell whether the leaves are serrated from the pictures as they are not of sufficient magnification. I also can't remember what I saw when I looked through the microscope. But I'll ask the professor the next time I meet him.

Loh K L

[propor]

No, I'm referring to this photo:
http://www.aquamoss.net/Stringy-Moss...Microscope.jpg
I has found it today again.
I also found the description of L.riparium in the net (Czech side - -for You) and yes-leave's edge is smooth.
I must to view moss nr 2 through lens of the microscope.

P.S. If somebody can to read Czech:
http://botanika.bf.jcu.cz/bryoweb/kl...todictyum.html
People in Czech are my brothers in language, so I can to understand this text .

[zobek]

Mosses grew up and I have some new photos.

The first moss grew well, and quite fast. It can be Fontinalis antyperitica ver gigantea, but also Fontinalis hypnoides


The second moss grow fast and don't look like L.riparium




I thing, that a real L.riparium is on this photo, but it can also be Drepanocladus aduncus.


All this mosses are growing in the same tank.

[Robert]

Hi,
the second moss looks a lot like Amblystegium serpens for me. I found it in nature and also kept in my tanks as well as emmers. It looks really similar. BTW, Satu's sample came from a bunch of moss which I sent her a few month earlier. It was collected in north-eastern Germany.

Here is another rare moss from Europe:

http://www.ak-wasserpflanzen.de/Stec...s_fontanum.htm

If it doesn't rain tomorrow I'll make a trip to our castle here. In it's garden is a fountain with an interesting moss on its rocks (growing in very wet conditions emmers as well as submerse), maybe it is this moss. It is just hard to get it because it is a circular basin and it grows on the rocks in the middle of it. Found no way to get some of the moss yet but maybe this time.

best regards

Robert

[propor]

Hi, Robert.

Octodiceras fontanum = Fissidens fontanus = Phoenix moss. - the moss which is known to aquarists on the world.
It occurres in Poland too, but it is on polish red list.
The second moss is not Amlystegium serpens (Nano moss). I'm sure.
Gomer - what do you think about it?

[RRG]

It occures in Poland too, but it is on polish red list.

Is that mean that particular moss is endangered or a weed?

[propor]

Hi, Rand.

Sorry for my English .
Octodiceras fontanum is extremally rare in Poland and it is legally protected.
I think this species is protected in Germany too.

[zobek]

Hi,
the second moss looks a lot like Amblystegium serpens for me.

I'm afraid propor is right, it's not Amblystegium serpens . I have nano moss (I think ) in the same tank and it do not look the same.
Here is a photo of Amblystegium serpens (?)


As you can see, it's growing straight upright. We can't say that about "flat moss".

[fish newb]

Dear Robert & Zobek,

I still think it's L. riparium and I have reasons to support my observation.

One, the professor has said that L. riparium, just like Singapore Moss (Vesicularia dubyana) is highly variable in nature. In other words, it can appear in different forms. Science, as I've said recently, isn't concerned about looks. Bryologists also don't care much for growth patterns. Whether the moss grows vertically or horizontally isn't important to them. As far as they are concerned, if the cells look the same, it's the same moss.

I am Aware of this, BUT I think it "could" be a Diffrent moss. out of the mosses I sent you one of them I collected on a small twig, I have a VERY small ammount but I believe it is diffrent from the first picture you showed and that is because of how the moss is, the main stem part where the leaves grow off is a ton diffrent opposed to the other one. that is from my observation, and only time will tell. Once the mosses are IDed by Dr. Tan that I sent you we will have a better idea.

Two, L. riparium is common in temperate countries. The professor said it's practically *all over the shop*, if you know what I mean.

Three, Robert said the moss looks like the one Kenny showed us earlier in this thread. The professor has already identified Kenny's Moss to be L. riparium.

Having said all that, I would like to add that if you're sure the moss isn't L. riparium, I'll be happy to bring it to the professor for you. Send me a sample.

Loh K L

I would also like to back Loh up on this. I have been growing locally collected "stringy moss" for almost a year now and looks just like your moss. Eventually when it can not grow up anymore, it will send out growth like X-mass moss, so when that happens don't worry and think its a new moss -.-

Have Fun With the moss!

- Andrew