Mosses and the men who love them - Part X

[timebomb]

Just to be sure we are talking about the same plant, here are some pictures of the fern gametophyte:


Bioplast has lots of it. They even use it as a fern wall:


A close-up picture of the plant:


Take note that the plant is a fern. It's neither a moss nor a liverwort. To be exact, it's a fern that for some strange reason, can't grow up It's stuck at the gametophyte stage. Here's a chart explaining a fern's life cycle:


According to the professor, the leaves of the fern gametophyte are exactly one-cell thick. It's a plant that is of great interest to many botanists around the world as it's a mystery why the gametophyte does not throw out sporophytes and grow into stems, roots etc. The identity of the fern itself is another mystery.

The professor said that recently, some botanists in Germany have established the identity of the fern gametophyte by using DNA finger-printing. Don't ask me what's DNA finger-printing all about as I don't have the slightest idea. But if you have a good suggestion for an appropriate common name, we would love to hear from you.

Loh K L

[whuntley]

I have seen something that looks identical in our local cold-water streams. I thought it was some kind of wort.

Common name? How about "Baby Fern?"

Or, to honor those among us who refuse to grow up despite baldness, gray hair, and false teeth, how about "Rocker Fern?"

Wright

[StanChung]

Just to be sure we are talking about the same plant, here are some pictures of the fern gametophyte:
L

That's the one! Great to have experts on it. I thought it was a liverwort.
It looks like one it should be one?
So wrong!
It has multiplied like crazy in my tanks and is pretty algae resistant or i must be doing something right.

[fabry]

The professor said that recently, some botanists in Germany have established the identity of the fern gametophyte by using DNA finger-printing. Don't ask me what's DNA finger-printing all about as I don't have the slightest idea. But if you have a good suggestion for an appropriate common name, we would love to hear from you.

Loh K L

Hi K.L.
You mean that someone could identify the species?
If this is true (I mean - if I understood correctly what you said) it would be great to know its latin name finally.
No?

Best regards,

Fabrizio.

[fish newb]

Hey Guys, Thanks a TON Loh! Well, To your surprise most of the mosses arent doing well that I had collected! LOL, Some on the other hand are doing excellent!

Some of the growth or not growth from *drowned mosses *

7- looks as if it is rooting all brown things... will be interesting to watch..

8-..... Well this one is amazing, in the picture you can see it's aquatic form starting to come out... well it keeps on growing! I think this will survive for a loong time! Beautiful brown and green growth!

9- Not much has happened, obviously has no true aquatic form

10- Thought was a fissiden at first, guess not will watch this.

11- is acting odd Obviously not going to last too much longer

12- This is interesting... two mosses that are the same one found dry one found in a stream... so they must be aquatic compatible

Andrew wanted to know what's a good book for someone like himself, a 14 year American boy who's passionate about mosses. This is what the professor recommends - Janice M. Glime. 1993. The Elfin World of Mosses and Liverworts of Michigan's Upper Peninsula and Isle Royale. Isle Royale Natural History Association, Houghton, MI. 148 pp.. The professor said the book is written in layman's language and has many coloured photos of the mosses from Michigan State in Eastern United States, where the state of Massachusetts is and has a similar moss flora.

By the way, Andrew, the professor also wants you to know that it isn't a nice thing to *drown* a terrestrial moss Laughing All the more so when in your part of the world, he said, there are many semi-aquatic to truly aquatic mosses that you can try to grow in your tanks. All you need to do is to and look for mosses growing in bogs, swamps, ponds, lake shores and stream banks.

Thanks for the book recomendation

And I have moved on to streams bogs puddles ponds.... So tell the DR. that he will have another good sized group of plants before long if he would like to see anything,..... Have collected a few interesting Moss number 6 - A leafy liverwort, Scapania sp Similar looking plants and They look great

15 Now Birthday was on the 29th But keep age the same since I was when I sent it, and you posted

Thanks for Everything and Thank you Loh, Thank you Dr. Tan!

Thanks again!

- Andrew

(Sorry for the late reply, have been away Mississippi- no moss found , Then before we went there I got to go collecting found some fissidens, liverworts, fun stuff!)

[fish newb]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Live-aquarium-pl...QQcmdZViewItem

Your pictures are being used,......

Oh, And I have a moss book on the way I got for Christmass about New England mosses! Printed in the 1800s

-Andrew

[totziens]

This is an excellent thread. I have never thought that there are so many different types of moss. I also didn't expect them to be available in the wild in Singapore. I guess they may be available in Malaysia too since our climate is similar. I think I have not been exposed to any unpolluted river/stream in Malaysia for ages. That's why I have not come across any moss in the wild. Maybe you can come across the border to check out Malaysian river/stream too. I am not sure whether any Malaysian is doing this kind of research - it's a shame if nobody does it.

[timebomb]

You mean that someone could identify the species?
If this is true (I mean - if I understood correctly what you said) it would be great to know its latin name finally.
No?

Sorry I took such a long time to reply to your question, Fabrizio. I was with the professor just now and when I asked him for the latin name of the fern gametophtye, he said we shouldn't reveal the name because what the botanists have discovered about this fern isn't conclusive. They have an ID but they can't be certain it's the right ID. So for the present moment, it's best to keep the name under wraps until they are sure.

Your pictures are being used,......

Thanks for the tip, Andrew. It's not the first time someone has used my pictures without my expressed permission. I think these fellas are scum.
It's not like they are small-timers or something. Heck, why does a company that ships their plants all over the world and has its own sub-forum in several "planted tank message boards" use my pictures to sell their mosses when they could have easily use their own? Why do they have to steal my pictures when they have the mosses for sale? Can't they take their own pictures?

Loh K L

[fish newb]

Your pictures are being used,......

Thanks for the tip, Andrew. It's not the first time someone has used my pictures without my expressed permission. I think these fellas are scum.
It's not like they are small-timers or something. Heck, why does a company that ships their plants all over the world and has its own sub-forum in several "planted tank message boards" use my pictures to sell their mosses when they could have easily use their own? Why do they have to steal my pictures when they have the mosses for sale? Can't they take their own pictures?

Loh K L

Who knows.....

I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it.... he didn't respond though.

And come on... it isn't that hard to even just say "from killies.com" or something like that!

Mosses are doing pretty good. This spring I'll probably have some more to send you! I collected some more willow moss and another moss that's probably nano moss! Also some new liverworts that are growing well in my tanks!

Thanks for the help IDing the previous mosses Loh!

-Andrew

[zobek]

and another moss that's probably nano moss!

I think that it's not a big deal In Poland nano moss is growing in our gardens

Best regards
Krzysiek

[RonWill]

I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it

Andrew, why would this be so? It doesn't matter what you take or for what intentions. So long it's taken without permission, it's stealing, period. Too bad the culprit has to be a gutless northern neighbour.

[timebomb]

I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it.... he didn't respond though.

I appreciate your efforts, Andrew but please don't stick your neck out on my behalf. It's not worth the trouble. I saw the post on APC and it only reinforces my belief that we should keep our forum free from commercial interests. The moment we accept sponsorship we become beholden to our sponsors. It's kind of hard to tell the guy who's paying your webhosting fees that he's unethical, if you know what I mean. Here in killies.com, all the moderators and I know that the day we do this as a business, whether full-time or part-time, it would also mean that's the day we leave this forum.

And come on... it isn't that hard to even just say "from killies.com" or something like that!

My sentiments exactly. The fact is all he had to do was ask. I've never turned down anyone or any company when they asked me for permission to use my pictures.

Loh K L

[joteo]

I posted about it in APC (www.aquaticplantcentral.com) in AquaticMagic's forum section and got a lot of people mad at me about it.... he didn't respond though.

I appreciate your efforts, Andrew but please don't stick your neck out on my behalf. It's not worth the trouble. I saw the post on APC and it only reinforces my belief that we should keep our forum free from commercial interests.

And come on... it isn't that hard to even just say "from killies.com" or something like that!

My sentiments exactly. The fact is all he had to do was ask. I've never turned down anyone or any company when they asked me for permission to use my pictures.

Sorry for pushing this really off topic, but the images are hosted at imageshack.

So, please do report the abuse on this page, as the owner of the images:
http://reg.imageshack.us/content.php?page=email&q=abuse

I do not think that you should let this go as this guy is using the pictures for profit. In fact, I think it's disappointing if you don't.

Since we are given the tools to report abuse, we should use it.

All you have to do is Right Click on the offending pictures and copy the address from the ebay webpage.

I've reported the abuse to eBay already. But it's best you get him at the imageshack level.

Joanne

[timebomb]

Thanks, Joanne.

I've already sent a request to imageshack to ask them to delete the pictures. Maybe I'm too laidback but if you hadn't said the part about disappointing, I wouldn't have made the report. The way I see it - imageshack may not accede to my request because it will take a bit of work on my part to prove those were my pictures.

Loh K L

[t4.]

I was very surprised at the mostly negative reactions to your post at APC, Andrew. Obviously it's pretty sleazy that KL's photographs were being used without his permission and without giving him due credit.

However, there is another issue: in using pictures that are not actually of the plants he is selling, AquaticMagic is, in my opinion, misrepresenting the product he is trying to sell to, among others, members of the APC community. The issue is therefore relevant to all of AquaticMagic's customers and potential customers, so posting about it in a public forum is perfectly appropriate. I couldn't believe that your topic was closed without this issue being given any consideration.

It makes me appreciate the lack of commercialism, encouragement of a wide variety of ideas, and sense of community at this forum that much more.

-Chris

[fish newb]

I was very surprised at the mostly negative reactions to your post at APC, Andrew. Obviously it's pretty sleazy that KL's photographs were being used without his permission and without giving him due credit.

However, there is another issue: in using pictures that are not actually of the plants he is selling, AquaticMagic is, in my opinion, misrepresenting the product he is trying to sell to, among others, members of the APC community. The issue is therefore relevant to all of AquaticMagic's customers and potential customers, so posting about it in a public forum is perfectly appropriate. I couldn't believe that your topic was closed without this issue being given any consideration.

It makes me appreciate the lack of commercialism, encouragement of a wide variety of ideas, and sense of community at this forum that much more.

-Chris

Yeah, I agree. APC mods are worried about bad publicity on their sponso I think... Who knows. I'm working on getting more plants raised in USA and not have to be imported. Mosses are a big hit so far and hopefully I'll up my inventory levels and get more mosses around here and hopefully need less venders from maylasia and other parts of the world.

Loh, good to know you're taking actions. I can't wait to see him loose your pictures!

-Andrew

[AquaManCanada]

AquaticMagic is using false pictures to advertise their product? This makes me wonder. I just finished purchasing some plants from their store on eBay and now I am second guessing myself although I have won the auctions and therefore I must may otherwise it is my feedback. I am glad I found out about this though thanks to this thread.

[polyglott]

Hi Kwek Leong, hi all,

So, would "Fountain Moss" be a good common name for Fissidens fontanus? You decide.

It is pretty difficult to keep in mind all the latin names, but it seems the only way to ensure that we talk about the same plants. So, if we are giving a common name we should also looking that no common name exist.
I agree that "US-Fissidens" is a wrong nick, since F. fontanus is also native in Europe and I couldn't believe that there is no common name for it. At the UK-checklist I found it: Fountain Pocket-moss
Reference: http://www.mapmate.co.uk/checklist/fissidentaceae.htm
K.L. respect, you had been very close to the right name.

You can find F. nobilis at Bioplast while Nature Aquarium sells F. splachnobryoides.

Maybe, that N.A. sells F. splachnobryoides, but they are wrong.
At the SriLankan-checklist I found the correct taxon of Fissidens splachnobryoides. It is Fissidens flaccidus. This is one of the mayor pain dealing with botany - too much synonyms.
Reference: http://www.oshea.demon.co.uk/tbr/srlsyn.htm

If you are now searching the web, you'll found a lot more hits. Inter alia a publication of Benito C. Tan.
Reference: http://rmbr.nus.edu.sg/rbz/biblio/s12/s12rbz005-008.pdf

Regards Uwe

edit:
Look also at: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.as...axon_id=112827
It may help to identify several Fissidentaceae or to find common names for it (if there is anyone, who knows Chinese).

[timebomb]

Your very first post yet there's so much useful information in it. You deserve more than a normal welcome, Uwe. We should roll out the red carpet for you

I'm pleasantly surprised that my suggestion for a common name for Fissidens fontanus is so close to the one already existing. There's little point in re-inventing the wheel so we should just ignore my suggestion but the name "Fountain Pocket Moss" seems a little long-winded. And why "pocket", I wonder? Is it because the moss is small? Hey, aren't all mosses?

As for Fissidens splachnobryoides, I don't know if it's the wrong name as Fissidens flaccidus is listed as a synonym. From what I understand of the word "synonym", it would mean we can use either F. splachnobryoides or F. flaccidus. My guess is the moss was first described and named as F. splachnobryoides by someone and then later named as F. flaccidus by another bryologist who wasn't aware that the moss has been described earlier. The professor told me once this kind of mix-up's happens often with bryophytes.

Between the 2 names though, I would prefer F. flaccidus for the simple reason it's a whole lot shorter and so much easier to remember.

Loh K L

[Martin]

let me as this..

F. zippelianus is the former F. sp. Singapore currently listed on Aquamoss.net?