moss tank and discus question

[soundtweakers]

Hello, this is billy from new york, I've been keeping planted aquarium for 7 years mainly focused on S. American biotope type of tanks. I've had success breeding and rearing angels and blue rams, and currently trying for discus. There seems to be very little info on mosses on those other forum that I frequent so I end up here. So much info on mosses in a killie fish forum!! I'm glad I've found it. So here is my first post and my first question.

I'm on the process of redoing a 20 gallon tall barebottom tank into a moss tank. It currently house 5 juv. discus and the temperature is set at 84F. I had purchased fissidens fontanus and fissidens zippenlianus from ebay and currently waiting for it's arrival. The substrate is going to be plain black sand, and the hardscape is going to be manzanita branches (still being soaked). The lighting I have for this tank is a triple bulb fixture w/reflector total at 45 Watts. The filter is a hang on the back power filter(aquaclear 20). Any directions regarding CO2 or ferts (substrate & liquid) welcomed.

Does anybody see any problem with my plan? Any suggestion is appreciated.
thanks
Billy

[FC]

Dear Billy,

Welcome here!

With regards to your question on fertilizer, the ideal concentration to maintain are:
NO3 - 5~15 ppm
PO4 - 0.5~2.0 ppm
K - 5~15 ppm

You may want to consider using Hagen fertilizers which I find very effective, see below pic and URL:



Visit their website, there is dealer information for USA.
http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/pro...01076850020101

[timebomb]

Welcome to killies.com, Billy.

I'm afraid it's not going to work for you. The 2 mosses in question, the F. fontanus and F. zippelianus require a lower temperature than the one in your tank right now. Anything above 82 F and I think the 2 mosses won't stand a chance.

You don't need CO2 to grow mosses but if you want prolific and lush growth, you have to have CO2 injection. As for ferts, mosses require very little fertilisation.

By the way, it's very hard to keep algae in check if you grow only mosses. Always have some fast-growing plants around, especially in the early stages of the setup.

Loh K L

[soundtweakers]

Thanks for the info.

This 20 gallon tank is being used for the past five month as a QT/grow out tank for my five juv. discus. I'm about to move them to my main tank since they sized up quite a bit over the past few month. Basically the tank will be free with a cycled filter ready for anything. What is the ideal temperture for the two mosses I'll be getting? I have plenty of wisteria from my two other planted tanks, I could use them as floating plants to fight algae so there wouldn't be much of an algae problem. So far my plans for the inhabitant for this tank is cherry shrimps and juv german blue rams. What fish do you guys usually keep with a moss tank?

Just out of curiosity, can I keep the new moss tank fish free while growing out the moss? Or should I just use cherry shrimps first for their bio waste(ferts) and their algae eating capabilities?

Thanks

[FC]

Billy,

In my encounters, algae can be controlled with good water quality meant for plants. Two approach:
1) proper nutrients
2) bio load control and reduction - less feeding and good bio bacteria cultivation

Other than the above are the lighting (strong light is less forgiving), temperature (not greater than 29 degress celcius) and CO2.

[timebomb]

What is the ideal temperture for the two mosses I'll be getting?

I think you should aim for somewhere between 77 and 81 F. The F. fontanus is relatively easy to grow when compared with the other aquarium mosses but the F. zippelianus is very difficult.

What fish do you guys usually keep with a moss tank?

As long as you are not keeping SAE's or Amano Shrimps, the mosses will be fine.

Just out of curiosity, can I keep the new moss tank fish free while growing out the moss? Or should I just use cherry shrimps first for their bio waste(ferts) and their algae eating capabilities?

It's always a good idea to start with a few fish and gradually add more as the tank recycles. If you leave your Discus out, I think you will find many baby Cherry Shrimps among your mosses.

Loh K L

[soundtweakers]

I had finally recieved my mosses, but they forgot to ship the zippelianus . Since my discus is still acclimating to my main tank, and my driftwood still being soaked(not quite water clogged yet), I actually have no idea where to place the moss. The fontanus were packed between two plastic mesh and shipped in brown envolope, I paid 19 USD(this amount did not include the missing zippelianus) for two very small portions (the mesh are measured 1.5 X 2 inches) of fontanus. The amount I recieved is enough to cover a piece of drift wood the size of a pencil ...I have a feeling I got ripped off.....

Well, right now my expensive fontanus mesh is resting on top of my floating riccia, it's right below the surface and submerged, the SAEs has no way of getting to it, the only critter checking out the plastic mesh is a few small snails. Will snails harm the moss? Is there a better way to place the mesh of moss for now?

thanks

[soundtweakers]

Still waiting for the responding email from the seller, kinda annoyed because I had send them at least six emails prior shipping regarding the additional purchases.

thanks for hearing me out, I swear I'm not the complaining type on a normal basis

[ExpelledBAN]

Man, next time you Should wait to find a good deal on One of the plant forums...

so your gonna cover ur manzanita with that fissen.. hope it goes good

[soundtweakers]

yup, those moss pics in this forum got to me. manzanita is taking too long to sink, I think I'll bury them in the substrate or tie them down or something.

It's funny that fissidens fontanus is supposely from Arizona, and I had to buy them from Malaysia. I gave those guys an open option regarding the missing plants, refund or re-ship is up to them. I don't believe a "no so smooth" transaction is a bad transaction. It'll all depend on how long it takes for them to respond my daily email to them.

billy

[polyglott]

Hi Billy,
it is not stringently the supplier, who forgot to ship the moss.
As I know it is very difficult to import plants into the States, especially the plants aren't nativ. The US authorities have laws to protect biodiversity against invasive species.

Fissidens zippelianus may be the wrong taxonomy for the US customs and you will never hear from them.
The scientific names changes frequently. I think F. zippelianus has been affected, but I don't remember well.
There is an early entry in a checklist that I found that pointed to Fissidens crispulus Bridel, 1819 [1818].

This could be another explanation for the missing moss.

Regards Uwe