Killies keep dying :(

[Mu]

Hi guys,

I'm Mu from Clementi. I'm trying to keep killies but they always die on me after a span of days. My killie failures started in 2004 when I tried keeping my first a.australe pair in a 3 gal planted. They died the next day.

I've recently revived my 3 gal.Put lots of Java moss. Did a partial cycle (at least I think) for 1.5 weeks before introducing the killies. The a.australes died the next day. (By the way, I bought them from an LFS in Clementi). The funny thing is they were perfectly fine, even looking for food and exploring their surroundings before going belly up the next day.Innitially I figured that incomplete cycling of my tank caused a ammonia/nitrite spike and killed the fish, but I was suprised to know that a couple of killie keepers I know never bother cycling their tanks at all, and their killies thrive

I refused to give up..Did a partial water change, let the tank sit for another week, then bought 2 more a. australes from the same LFS. Same thing, belly up the nexy day.

I'm hoping someone can shed some light as to what I'm doing wrong. My setup is as as follows.

- 3 gal hexagon glass tank
-Undergravel filter
-9W aquarium compact fluorescent light
-Java Moss
-Moss balls
-Some lava rocks,
-Coconut shell covered in java moss
-Basic aquarium gravel
-Clementi tap water treated with dechlorinator($1), then left overnight.
-Tetra liquid plant firtilizer (nitrate free)
-black water essence

I can only think of 2 factors, either water or stress. For water, I suspect perhaps the fertilizer I'm using. However, my plants love it, perhaps I slightly overdose, but is that enough to kill my fish? If its stress, how do I minimize it so that my fish will survive the transition.

I'm now keeping 5 dario darios and a single sparkling gourami. They seem to be doing ok.

I've jut purchased a smaller tank (probably 2 gals), with an over hanging power filter and 7 w compact fluorescent light. So far I've got 4 pgymy corries and a single guppy (given by a friend), 2 cocnut shells covered with java moss and some java moss, and of course, all the water conditioners specified above.

Itching to maybe have a n. raachovii or a. australe, but I really don't want to kill them.

Any advice as to what I need to improve would be great!

Thanks in advance
-Mu-

[timebomb]

Hi, Mu,

Welcome to the forum.

I seriously doubt that liquid fertiliser can kill fish, even if there is an overdose. More likely, the reason your Killies are dying is they were unhealthy fish in the first place.

The problem with the local fish shops in Singapore is that they don't really know how to take care of Killifish. They think Killies are like Bettas and often house and transport them in small plastic bags. This causes a lot of stress to the fish and they are likely to die when you bring them home from the fish shops.

I would suggest you stop buying Killies from the shops. It's better to get the fish from hobbyists who breed them at home. Or better still, get them as eggs, hatch and raise them yourself.

Loh K L

[Mu]

Hi Loh,

I've toyed with the idea of raising fry but don't think I have the time to indulge in it right now. I know its really rewarding, perhaps some day Right now I'm just looking to have some adults and care for them. They're really beautiful fish, if only I can get them to live

Yup, they were in a really unhealthy looking tank, filled with platies, guppies, rams and numerous dead fish when I bought them.

Do you know a place where I can buy some healthy adults ?

Thanks
Mu

[mozaqua]

Mu,

I would keep a single pair of killies in 15-20 liters (4-5gal) at least firstly.
Secondly if the fish died shortly after putting them in the aquarium, it could be that you still have a lot of nitrates leftover from your previous fish. I would not use an under-gravel filter with killies, a sponge filter works much better. Also do not mix killies with most other community fish, they are better on their own. I have found they get along well with otocinculus sp., but they are not good to keep with guppies.
If you plan to get more killies get them from eggs, or someone with healthy fish.
First you should make sure there is no nitrites, and nitrates are very low. Secondly do not use the chemical chlorine remover, they are sometimes toxic to killies. The best way to treat water is to filter it through activated carbon, then heavily aerate overnight with a powerhead or airstone.
When you go to the store to pick out your kilies, never buy fish from a tank with dead or sick fish in it. Also ask the shop keeper how long the fish have been in the tank, and if any have died since then. Do not buy fish that have arrived the same day, come back in a few days when they are stronger.

I think if you follow this outline, your fish should live a long time, it has worked well for me.

Regards,

[Mu]

Hi there Cobalt99,

Timeless advice thanks!

I will ensure ensure the tank goes to full cycle before adding kilies.

[bennyong19]

hi mu, did you add aquarium salt to your water? Killies live in brackish water, where fresh water and salt water mixed. If your water have no salt, likely they will die next day like what you say.

[RonWill]

Mu, I'm suspecting 'new tank syndrome' and sudden changes in parameters since you made no mention how the new australes were acclimatized. Regardless of local store bought or EMS-delivered live killies, I'm a strong believer in drip-acclimatization.

The Aphyosemion australe var. Orange is quite robust and IMHE, doesn't die just like that. Here's a male that I used to use as breeding stock and had a tankful of them (once upon a time);

If you can get hold of the Chocolate variant, it is also very pretty. Can't remember where I filed the image but you can see a fine specimen here.

One more thing... you should be treating for Chloramine, not Chlorine.

Benny, not all killies are raised and live in brackish water. My previous non-annuals, including AUS and especially the Chromaphyosemion, did very well in soft acidic water ranging from 4.5~6.5pH.

Side note: Since we're experiencing cool year-end weather (reading 26ºC in my tanks), I couldn't resist giving the Chrom. bitaeniatum ('Majitam' & 'Ijebu Ode' population) and splendopleure 'Tiko' another go. Let's see if I still have 'the touch'!

[whuntley]

Great advice (as usual) Ronnie.

The vast bulk of killifish species live in fresh (not brackish) waters. Many still benefit from the reduced osmotic pressure of a small amount of salt in their water. Most do well in soft slightly acidic water.

Chloramine is odorless and colorless and is used in SG water supplies, so a de-chlorine product will not do the job. It just releases a big burst of ammonia that can be deadly to more sensitive species. Use Amquel, Prime, Ammo Lock 2 or equivalent products to sequester both the chlorine AND ammonium. Avoid any product, like Novaqua, that says it breaks the chlorine-ammonium bond. Those kill fish quickly in chloraminated water.

Wright

[Mu]

Thanks for the advice guys

I usually treat the water with dechlorinator and leave it overnight, sometimes for a couple of days before using it. I trust that this should render the water safe for aquarium use.


Ron, what exactly is drip-acclimatization?

Thanks,
Mu

[RonWill]

Mu,
Look at the details on your bottle and see if it eliminates chlorine or chloramine. Ideally, you should be treating for the latter since that's what our waterworks are using now.

By drip-acclimatizing, try to imagine a siphon from your present tank to another container or pail. Instead of hose-sized diameter, an air tubing with a valve fitted (at the lower end) will allow you to adjust drip rate into the pail (where your new killies are). Personally, I prefer to use a pail because killies CAN jump.

If the killies are bought overseas, chances are the TDS vary by as much as four times. In that case, I'll start the siphon and clip one end of the tube about 2" into the tank, go with very very slow drip rate, slap a lid on the pail and leave it overnight. Never lost an import that wasn't already DOA'ed in the bag. BTW, last I tested, the TDS reads between 80~110ppm.

If your tanks do not have a lid, go rig something up. Pity to have them live past acclimatization only to have them dried on the floor somewhere. Good luck with your next purchase and keep us posted.

[Mu]

Hi guys,

Yikes, looks like I've been treating for only chlorine, and not chloramine. Just bought medication to treat both. Cross fingers and see if it'll work.

Thanks guys!

[h3ng]

hi bro .. yesterday i just get 1pair of Aphyosemion australe Orange from clementi 328 .. they doing fine .. thats a veri nice fish ..

[whuntley]

A seldom-recognized problem with chloramine is the tendency (at lower levels) to sterilize, but not actually kill the fish.

If you are having a fertility problem, check on how you are handling your chloramine in the tap water. We had an incident some years ago, where Santa Clara Valley water was fed to communities normally getting pure SF Hetch-Hetchy water. Fish rooms all up the SF peninsula suffered sterility problems.

Wright

[Mu]

Hi Wright,

I lived in San Francisco for 2 years before moving to Singapore in August 08. Throughtout my time there I kept a betta in a 1 gal bowl. Did treat the water with water conditioner I bought at Petsmart(specifically for bettas).

Killies are probably a lot more sensitive than bettas when it comes to water requirements. Anyways, I've never seen killies at all when I was over there. The only 2 LFS I've been to are Petsmart in Daly City and the one in Tanforan, both in South San Francisco.

Thanks for the info, my betta is now in the hands of a trusted guardian, I shall alert her about chloramine

[whuntley]

SF switched to chloramine a couple of years ago, with widespread notice to fish shops and the public. Levels are usually low enough to sterilize, but not kill fish. I prefer neither.

Like most places in the world, killies are rarely handled through shops as they are commercial losers. BAKA is the main source of fish and information in N. CA. See www.sfbaka.net.

Ocean Aquarium in SF, on Cedar St., is the best shop for killifish, I think.

Wright

[keehoe]

Hi All, always glad to see old friends.

Mu, I still have a water filter to give away. let me know if you interested. I use that when i was keeping killi in clementi two years ago.

I use that to filter tap water before adding it into the fish tank.

I still thinks it is the acclimatization process that kills the fish. Clementi water is quite soft with TDS of about 90 and with only small bag of water when you brought the fish home. It might takes long time to acclimatize any fish to the new environment.

[gabrie]

hi all
i have just started with clown Killie which resides in my planted aquariume. can advice on how to take care of them ? and will they breed in the tank? ph 6.6 and with the ketapand leaves.tank is 1ft cube tank?feeding pellets to them now :-)

thanks
gabrie

[fotoudavid]

Amazing, anyone stays in bukit batok? want to learn some info before keeping them.

[keehoe]

hi all
i have just started with clown Killie which resides in my planted aquariume. can advice on how to take care of them ? and will they breed in the tank? ph 6.6 and with the ketapand leaves.tank is 1ft cube tank?feeding pellets to them now :-)

thanks
gabrie

They breed near the surface of the water. As they are aggressive fish. Additional hiding place at that column and floating plant will helps. They like to jump. So remember to add cover or soon find them BBQ on you fluro tube or on the floor.

[RonWill]

...and will they breed in the tank? ph 6.6 and with the ketapand leaves.tank is 1ft cube tank?feeding pellets to them now

Gabrie,
Some quick answers...
Clown killies are quite hardy if you know how and can be trained to take mini pellets or crushed flakes but to condition them well for breeding, live foods are best. Not too particular with regarding pH level and will adapt/breed between 5.5~7.0. To avoid cross-posting, I've briefly responded here