Are stingrays allowed to be sold in the market place?

[wllm33]

I cannot find this topic, but can I ask if stingrays are allowed to be sold in AQ?
thanks.

[Simon]

if it is not legal to sell them in Singapore then it ain't allowed in AQ

[Jervis]

I've seen them in LFS before... I got a feeling they are not banned.

[mkt]

its a fav bbq dish

[wllm33]

quite sure it is not illegal to sell stingrays (not the eating type for the bro who wants to bbq them), as a lot of lfs selling them out right.i just do not want to infringe on the guidelines of AQ.

but i noticed that AQ seems nobody sells stingrays from the threads i see for a while compared to other forums.

But i am definite SURE it is allowed by AVA to be sold in singapore as it is not an endangered fish.
thanks

[ccs]

Stingrays are not endangered but think their sales is restricted by AVA as they are considered dangerous animals/fish. Just like why pirahna is not allowed to be sold here.

[illumnae]

There is subsidiary legislation under the Fisheries Act known as the Fisheries (Pirahna) Rules which specifically prohibits the keeping and release of pirahnas. There's no such legislation for stingrays i believe.

[Interestor]

quite sure it is not illegal to sell stingrays (not the eating type for the bro who wants to bbq them), as a lot of lfs selling them out right.i just do not want to infringe on the guidelines of AQ.

but i noticed that AQ seems nobody sells stingrays from the threads i see for a while compared to other forums.

But i am definite SURE it is allowed by AVA to be sold in singapore as it is not an endangered fish.
thanks

maybe you can drop an email to AVA, than share the reply here to benefit our doubt.


CHeers..

[budak]

See http://www.wildsingapore.com/news/20070506/070525-5.htm

[wllm33]

maybe you can drop an email to AVA, than share the reply here to benefit our doubt.


CHeers..

hi,
i have already confirmed with AVA it is not illegal to sell them.
I just want to confirm with AQ to make sure that we are clear that the moderators of AQ allow them as we do not want to contravene the forum guidelines, since I don't see any one selling stingrays here.
If AQ has not problems then it is a non issue with AVA.
thanks.

[illumnae]

I read that news article too budak. however, some research done by a friend who also saw that article led to the conclusion that the AVA spokesman was misrepresenting the law. after he told me that, I went to check out the legislation and was also unable to find anything that supports the AVA spokesman's claim. wllm33 has also confirmed that AVA itself has changed its position from the article, and that it's not illegal to sell rays

[Interestor]

i wrote a feedback email to AVA yesterday afternoon.

today morning got a call from Mr. Soh from AVA, through our conversation, sales of Freshwater sting rays are banned in LFS as tank space in LFS is "Limited".
BUT, was allow on sales in "FARM" as the space for the Freshwater sting ray is big enough.

and also if fish keeper allow to sale in forum or through papers, AVA will not interfer as long as " no complaint " from "others'.


CHeers..

[budak]

hmm.. is this what is called a 'light touch?'

Personally, I'd favour a regulatory environment where such potentially dangerous (and expensive) species are regulated like arowanas, with individually tagged fish and registered keepers/sellers. Ecologically, it's already too late with all these aliens established in the reservoirs, but from the view of public safety (considering all the other leisure activities taking place in the reservoir parks), maybe it might take a real 'incident' to create an uproar that results in stricter control.

[Interestor]

end of the days, it depends on self discipline



CHeers..

[wllm33]

basically for all fishes, also depends on the individual, if you are looking at things like releasing unwanted fishes into reservoirs.
it is just education mainly.
i don't think we should put a law enforcement into everything. As it is , there are already too many restrictions on a lot of things in spore. What we need most is education. Law enforcement is a last resort and it is punitive, not the best way to solve things.

arowanas are a different lot, as it is a CITES II listing if not mistaken. So the tagging is universal to all countries and it is an international requirement.

[Andrew Soh]

don't think we should put a law enforcement into everything.

arowanas are a different lot, as it is a CITES II listing if not mistaken

...

....agree with you. I talked to some guys in the trade and the ban was in country of origin not Singapore...for Stingray that is....

I remembered someone told me ...many years ago that the cities II certification for Arowana should be lifted.....why still need tagging?

The reason he gave was...in the past, arowanas were only able to breed in small quantity in capitvity....so they pay AVA (being the governing body) for tagging the new-borns and F4s are allowed to sell under cities II.

Now...the farms are in abundance....with easy production. Though some species production volume are less than others especially the REDs, it is a known fact that all species are able to breed spontaneously now. I know of farms producing more than a thousand arowanas of various variants per year.

So he said, they are no more endangered species and definitely domesticated and breeding spontaneously....why still fall under cities II?

Just bringing out a discussion with an authority in that field.

Take care,
Andrew

[budak]

...because the Asian arowanas (which are one or four separate species depending on which scientist you ask) are still endangered, either by habitat destruction or fishing in their wild habitats?

I am all for captive breeding and trade for species like aros, but success in captivity isn't the same as the sustainability of wild populations.

As for other species like rays, I am not convinced education is helping if at all. Alien species like South American cichlids are now known to occur very close or even within once-pristine parts of the nature reserves here, either via successful naturalisation or new waves of releases by hobbyists/do-gooders. It's probably not possible nor desirable to regulate all fish species, but with animals that could pose a real threat to public safety due to them being released anywhere from reservoirs to neighbourhood ponds, I think regulation is quite warranted.

[wllm33]

...because the Asian arowanas (which are one or four separate species depending on which scientist you ask) are still endangered, either by habitat destruction or fishing in their wild habitats?

I am all for captive breeding and trade for species like aros, but success in captivity isn't the same as the sustainability of wild populations.

As for other species like rays, I am not convinced education is helping if at all. Alien species like South American cichlids are now known to occur very close or even within once-pristine parts of the nature reserves here, either via successful naturalisation or new waves of releases by hobbyists/do-gooders. It's probably not possible nor desirable to regulate all fish species, but with animals that could pose a real threat to public safety due to them being released anywhere from reservoirs to neighbourhood ponds, I think regulation is quite warranted.

I totally agreed that it is difficult to educate people. An analogy would be cigarette smoking. How many actually listen?

But to regulate just because the education failed is a bit too harsh, as there will be too many things to put a law to. Most people usually find it a bit repulsive if anything is compulsory or punitive. Is just human behaviour.
I guess we will have to live with this, as there are too many familiar trends like this surrounding us in spore, and already one too many laws for everything that people won't follow. A good e.g. would be the new one about the bus bays, which make it compulsory for cars to stop to let the bus out of the bus bays which will come into force soon, just because people refuse to give way to the buses. Otherwise there will be a punitive fine. How many more will there be? No end to this.

[Savant]

I support some form of regulation to the extent that it encourages responsible fishkeeping but to the extent that it destroys availability...

Guess tagging will help to identify the last recorded buyer of a dangerous fish if it was found to be released in the wild later on or if it hurts someone... It does not solve the problem completely as nothing will prevent a curious/irresponsible hobbyist from releasing untagged spawns anyway (except the prospect of being about to tag them cheaply and selling them over forums/LFS)...

[benny]

Given the current 'clarity' of the legislation of the importation and sale of stingray, it seems like it is legal to be sold if you have the proper permit to import (or at least the shop has) and that you have a large enough space to merchandise it.

As such, we will allow the sale of stingrays in Aquatic Quotient until there is a further change in the legislation.

Cheers,