Tactics with substrate (a.k.a methods)

[Verminator]

First off, apologies if this is in the wrong place. Couldnt find a more suitabloe section, perhaps a moderator can move it if needs be.

I'm planning on using TETRA PLANT COMPLETE SUBSTRATE as a base fert. Its cheap, readily available and i'm not planning on entering any special competitions with this tank, its just a first attempt. I plan to add a standard AQUARIUM SAND ontop as the medium to plant into.

I was just curious if the sand will block out the nutrients from the base fert or if that isnt an issue.

Noob when it comes to substrates

Thanks, James

[StanChung]

Hi James, TETRAPLANT COMPLETE SUBSTRATE is a base fert and meant to be covered with gravel.
Some of us still use base fert for our setups. Works well for larger/buoyant plants IMHO as they root well in sand.
Not good for scapes that use moss and other non-rooting plants as the substrate needs to be oxygenated by plant roots or it will produce quite a stink.

[Verminator]

I don't plan on using much moss, only a little.

I plan to have a lawn of HC around a large cave with Anubias nana around attatched to various rocks and wood. Simple and minimalist. Providing an aesthetically pleasing planted tank whilst providing a nice home for some tetras and/or japonica shrimp and my dwarf gourami pair.

I was concidering just placing standard pea gravel ontop of the base fert, but thought that would be a waste. So sand would be my first option, assuming it won't reduce the effectiveness of my base fert? Thus where i need assistance if possible.

I'm trying to reduce cost where i can, substrate is one area i'm trying this.

[Jervis]

I used base fertilizer for my 4ft tank (and some smaller tanks too)... although seen as the 'old' method... most importantly they work!

I think the substrate that goes on top of the base fertilizer cannot be too fine. You can take the Dennerle Quartz as a guide... anything finer than that could possibly be unsuitable.

[khtee]

I plan to add a standard AQUARIUM SAND ontop as the medium to plant into.

I was just curious if the sand will block out the nutrients from the base fert or if that isnt an issue.

Thanks, James

AQUARIUM SAND as in the type of sand you find in the beach?

[Verminator]

Not sure if its that off of a beach, but its known as aquarium sand. Its just sand in a 5kg bag that says it doesnt affect pH ect and is good for loaches and planting into. Bog standard aquarium sand i guess. No idea where its from to be exact.

[StanChung]

Some crypts would be good to keep the base oxygenated and healthy.
Not ideal for an epiphyte only set up with nanas, ferns and mosses. IMHO.

[Verminator]

The plan as it stands will be HC lawn in front half. With a cave to one side and rocks with Riccia tied on to around the rest of the space. With one or two stem plants at the back.

Seeing as i'm planning on using a base fert, as well as some dosing of additional ferts, what would people suggest i add on top of the base fert. I may opt to buy something like Amazonia II powder from Mizu World when i order my plants for shipment for this tank too. Its an option.

Anyone have any other suggestions to place ontop of the base fert.

[Binks]

If you are going to use 'river sand' or pool filter sand as top soil over your base, I would strongly suggest you put in some MTS (Malaysian Trumpet Snails). They do keep the soil well aerated.

speaking from experience, i had a 3 footer with 2inches of base made up of laterite (bolstered with root fertilizers) covered by an inch of river sand.Worked wonders for my crypts etc . Of course with lots of MTS!

[StanChung]

Hi James, you can put AS 'powder' sloped in front at around 2-3" height to plant HC. Meaning you leave the front without any gravel or base fert. I've done this to good effect in the past when designer soil was considered a luxury.[now necessity!]

As for MTS? I would think twice before introducing them for aesthetic purposes. Once introduced, you have no easy way to remove them. I always get them for free from infected plants.

Salt doesn't kill them, puffers don't/can't eat them, bleach doesn't without killing everything else, anti snail-not effective, boiling does but it also kills everything else, drying the soil/substrate may kill them, not 100% effective.

They're so easy to accidentally transfer them to other tanks.
I personally find them as a menace to beauty as nothing really can touch it if it burrows deep in the substrate or hide among the ferns.
They come out by the dozens if not hundreds at night hanging on the side of the glass walls. Not a pretty sight.

I guess it's good food for your clown loaches.

[Verminator]

StanChung you lost me on AS 'powder' - sorry I don't quite follow your concept there in all honesty. Can't visualy what your saying.

I'd rather not introduce snails. Despite my clown loach having an aquired taste for them this tank will be clown loach free due to it being a planted tank, i'd rather not introduce snails at all if i can help it. As StanChung says - they come free when you don't want them anyway without introducing them.

My plans keep changing in my head haha But currently i'm thinking perhaps HC lawn at the front - buts theres a problem. My last attempt at HC ended in misery. It all just rotted away untill there was nothing left. I didnt even remove any, it literally ALL vanished over a month. That was in my 3ft tank with just 2 30W T8 bulbs though.

Ahhh i'm so confused what substrate to get, so undecided. I'm thinking perhaps just save hassle and buy ADA Amazonia II powder, yes? Would be much easier and then i have one substrate that is easy to plant in and acts as a fert.

[StanChung]

Use soil for the foreground where you'll be planting HC and sand + base fert at the back.

[Verminator]

So use ADA Amazonia II powder (for example) at the front for my HC lawn (attempt) and base fert + sand for the background plants.

Base fert + sand will be a minimal area, less than a quarter of the tank in the back left corner. Is it worthwhile even sectioning that area off at all. I mean were talking Hygrophila Rosanervig in the corner behind the cave and that possibly all. Then theres the lawn covering most of the front with a riccia corner reaching up to the surrface in the right corner.

[StanChung]

I did that last time to save on soil. But in the end they will mix up if you don't have a good way to partition it. Stones and wood help separate it

Not sure how much you'll save because in the long run, the time to do the partitioning and later when you need to separate the stuff when rescaping would be a lot of work.
So it's really up to you. You don't save a lot IMO.

[Verminator]

I think i'll just stick to one soil. I need something with a fertile top layer for my carpet at the front, so i think research for what nutrient rich substrates i can get locally is the best option for now. Afterall i have no need to rush. The tank is sat next to me now empty waiting for the substrate. Then i can begin working on hardscape preperations.

[StanChung]

Hi James, Do you buy from Aqua Essentials?

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/inde...roducts_id=574
ƒ28 is quite a lot of money. It's about ƒ17 here. [Sorry for comparing, VAT is probably higher in the UK and it's got to travel a lot further...]

[Verminator]

We have the largest range of nature aquarium goods in the UK

That was taken from the introduction on the homepage. I'm confused, is this an english site you've shown me? If so, how would it travel alot further heh You confused me with that.

Living here i know first hand prices are ridiculous for alot of things. For a decent midsize piece of wood you can pay £25 easily at out of town places.

[Verminator]

Oh and to add, i up and until now have shopped for things at some LFS and ordering in some goods. Plants i buy online (MizuWorld is my #1 choice currently)

[StanChung]

Yes, it's an English site. A very good one in fact with lots of info laid in. Quite complete and ADA products are cheaper here perhaps because you guys are much further from Japan comparatively.

The comparison was meant as if I were to buy from an LFS here. AS is about RM105- that's about ƒ17. Sorry if I didn't explain in detail.

I think if you compared ƒ for RM as you guys earn in ƒ, you probably have it much cheaper! wood is about RM4-150 depending on size and type. Again, compared ƒ to RM it's about the same IMHO.

I've been to London once and ƒ1.40 for a cup of coffee then[1999] made me want to gulp myself silly when back home!

So soil it is I presume?

[Verminator]

Its been a long time planning, although actually implementing this long awaiting project has been on hold for a while. But now i actually come to start the process of creating this tank AquaEssentials.co.uk seem to have taken off the ADA soils from their range. Now i don't know where to get it from. Perhaps Aquaspotworld.com, the european counterpart to Mizuworld.com. Hmmm...

I can't really do anything untill i can find where to get ADA Amazonia Soil from. Except gather the appropriate rocks and wood