About steps in replanting

[kubrich]

Hie. I was thinking of replanting and rescaping my 2ft tank over my coming study week. Just curious about the steps involved. Do i just rip out all the plants and do want change water and then plant the new plants? and what do i do with all the fish in there now. And the shrimp too. Was thinking of keeping the next setup simple. Going to keep my xmas moss on my big driftwood in still. but there is quite abit of bba growing on it.what should i do? there seems to be bba growing on the gravel as well. I was thinking of just keeping the moss laden drift wood and the rocks with java moss growing on them.Then i was thinking of taking out all the other plants and then growing a lawn of tennelus and maybe some short broad-leaved plants tt are low maintainace. Any recomendations? then maybe one slightly taller plant for the back ground.but the short broad leaved plants i would like them to be taller than the tennelus. Could any of you guys out there direct me on the steps i need to take when replanting and recomend some plants tt fit the kind of discriptions i gave. Btw,where can i buy tennelus in the west area...don't think i can make it down to lck cos i don't drive.
After replanting and all,do i have to let the water settle before putting in the fishes again?reason for replanting is cos i'm kind bored with the current setup and the plants keep growing so tall and so fast,it becomes a real chore to trim them every week. esp the eel grass in the background,spreads like no bodies business and gotta keep trimming.plus i had no say in the plants in there now,told mom i wanted to buy plants few months back,she just went out and happen to stop by some shop and bought what SHE liked...and the tank looks nothing like what i want...[]

[PeterGwee]

BBA is there for a reason...rescaping will only delay the onset of BBA if you continue on your current fertilization regime which is probably the problem.....its up to you though...Look into your fertilization regime and learn more about it...grow the plants well first before you embark on your scaping technique. Step by step approach works best..[] ..Oh..do remove your BBA as much as you can physically...look into NO3 and PO4 as well.

Extracted from aquabotanic forum

Jobes and most regular fertilizer sticks have that damn urea and ammonium. That's the problem if you ever want to pick on a nutrient.

I'm with the Germans on this one. I know if you keep good over all conditions it never gcomes back after a good hack and prune. CO2 is so important and I realized I was short CO2 when I had it in the past. I kept up on my CO2 DIY bottle changes and everything worked prefectly then. I have checked and corrected perhaps 20-30 tanks with _serious_ infestations.
Ones that had 0.0ppm of PO4 measured with all Lamott still had nice BBA matts, the NO3 method had the same effect. The rest of the nutrients were kept stable and easily so.......the tank did not take up much at all since it was limit on one single key element. The algae are use to low levels. Plants aren't.

I collect this alga in the wild in a natural system. It is a hardwater spring. If you raise the CO2 to 20+ppm, this algae is not a problem if you have the other nutrients, GH, NO3, PO4, K, traces.

I suppose I say this a great deal but removing the algae manually first, then doing a water change right afterwards, then add fresh nutrients back after that and correct CO2, nutrient levels, clean filter etc.
Repeat as needed or after neglect, etc.

If the plants aren't growing, something else will. It's far more often it's a _lack_ of something allowing algae to grow. Lack of CO2, PO4, NO3 etc.

What you see with limiting or removing a nutrient etc is due to the size and growth rates that the algae get hit first but always seem to hang on and the following week or two it gets bad and comes back. Plants are larger and have more reserves, they just stop growing and sit until they have enough nutrients if they are limited on something. So you see little effects on the plants. But after a week or two the plants suffer.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[kubrich]

I kinda cut down drastically on my fertilization regime. Last time when i had a sudden onset of BBA,my fertilization regime seemed to make it worse. So i cut down to adding liquid fert every once in a blue moon.I think the problem lies in the fert sticks cos i used them to replace base fert,but i did not put in alot of them,just where the stem plants and higer nutrient requirement plants grew.i even break the sticks into two so not so much in one area.Plants are growing very well despite the weird fertilization regime.esp the eel grass.don't think low levels of CO2 is the problem also cos i maintain at about 3bps and bubbling of my plants is alot.i've tried all kinds of methods of removing the bba but to no avail.manually trim most of the moss with BBA,introduce about about 100 plus malayan shrimp,bought sae's and tt funny lookin pencil fish from tt fish and pet place tt eats BBA. last time i took out the whole moss on driftwood piece and placed it into a tub and qurantined it for about 1 week plus,put it into a tub,added water and alot of black water and then 3 days later put int about 200 malayan shrimp and leave it for about 1 weeks plus.still no cure.Until now,in my about 8 months in this hobby,i still don't understand much about the different elements in the nutrients. I roughly know wat phosphates,nitrates,nitrite,iron,and all does...but i dunno what PO4 and NO3 is and what they do.was thinking of replanting the tank.keep up with the amount of algae eating crew in my tank and plant some plants tt take up alot of nutrients to inhibit the growth of algae...maybe some duckweed for awhile then remove all of it when the situation is better,jus scared tt it blocks too much light tts all.
will taking out my gravel and then douse it with boiling water help kill the bba on it when i am doing my replanting? and what to do with the fishies when rescaping?

[kubrich]

Anyone out there can offer any advice or information...Please do help[] []

[bclee]

Usually, I find CO2 to be a big factor for BBA. Check NO3 or PO4 too. Could be NO3 limited. Just a guess. You gotta test your water to find out exactly what is happening.

pH/KH/CO2
NO3
PO4

BC

[Goondoo]

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On 2/21/2003 5:13:17 AM

Usually, I find CO2 to be a big factor for BBA. Check NO3 or PO4 too. Could be NO3 limited. Just a guess. You gotta test your water to find out exactly what is happening.

pH/KH/CO2
NO3
PO4

BC
----------------

From what I had derived from an article, plants need a balanced Nitrate and Phors to flourish. Algaes on the other hand just needs any of them.
With sufficient other specs(lights, CO2....), a balanced NO3 and PO4 will help the plants fight algaes.... an bad imbalance will only encourage more algae growth.

[joe]

I just did a major replanting and in the process pulled up lots of roots. A lot of the dirt was stirred up although I tried to be very gentle. In the process, all my yamatoes died. Checked with Chan @ NA and he says it is probably all the stirring up of the gravel that killed the yamatoes. Just thot you might wanna know.

[PeterGwee]

Ermmm Joe..don't think stirring up of the gravel plus base fert will kill those critters. I did it so many times either for replanting of step plants and 1 month ago a major rescape..they are still alive and kicking.

[joe]

Maybe not. But sim tia that all of them died [] Just warning kubrich to do it slowly that's all

[PeterGwee]

Did you wash the filter as well during the rescaping?

[Addie]

Just to share my experience here.

I did a major rescaping few months ago because I gave up to deal with the BBA. My tank was lack of NO3 and still have not get a hand on KNO3 at that time . Knowing that nutrient balancing is very important to control bba, I decided to restart everything with correct nutrient balance.

I prepared half a bucket of water (condition it first over night) to store all my live stock. It will be good if you have a spare tank. Fill up the other half with the existing water from the tank (thought this will help the fish and also minimum bba will be in the existing water). Transport all the live stock into the bucket. Pull out all the plants and put some stem plants in the bucket for the fish to hide.

Since it is a small tank, it is easy to take all the gravel to wash. I don't have base fert thus less concern. If you have base fert, guess you have to prepare to loss them and put in new one later.

Remove as much BBA from your plants as possible. Wash filter.

Setup the tank again with only plants in it. About 70% new water and 30% from the bucket. Condition the water for a 4 hours (I wish I can condition longer to stabilised the couldiness but I worry my fish inside the bucket) with filter on. Did not turn on light and CO2. Add the fish back into the tank. Pray for the fish to live [] Luckily, all fish alive when I woke up the next day.

Water was cleared the next day and I turn on light and CO2 but no fert fo a week. Monitored all the water parameters from then onwards until the full nitrogen cycle was completed. I added N & K in my tank sometime 1 month after the setup.

My tank now is stay out of bba (touch wood[] ) since then. BTW, I would like to say that this is only my experience. It is definitely not a confirmed receipe to respace a tank.

Hope this 2 cents will help you.
For the rest of the forumers, apologise for the long message.

[joe]

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On 2/21/2003 10:21:16 AM

Did you wash the filter as well during the rescaping?
----------------

Nope. Filter never washed before since I started one month ago. Only pull plants out and replanted some new ones. Other possibility is chemicals in the new plants that is dangerous to the yamatoes but not to fish (all fishes are ok).

[kubrich]

thanx for all the advice guys. Anyway,i just got back from that fish and pet place not too long ago and got some tips also from the uncle working there. Just bought tennelus and a crypt and 2 other kinds of plants,forgot what their names are. Also just setup my gf's mini 1ft planted tank(java fern and tenellus only),co2 comin from the nutrafin co2 thing.Must say i am quite impressed with the product. When i first started,i had to drill holes into soda caps and silicone my tubing to it and all...Anyway,back to the matter at hand. From what the owner of the shop told me,he said to just leave my fish and shrimp in the tank,slowly take out the plants i don't want and take out my moss and trim off as much of the bba infested parts as possible,maybe even close to botak and let it grow back. As for the BBA growing on the gravel,he said just siphon it out. Then let the filter run awhile to clear the cloudiness. After that,plant in the new plants and do a partial water change. I personally think it would be a good idea at this point to let the water settle again and then wash the filter before the water change. Then he said do another partial water change again 3 days later.

Anyway,what do you guys think about leaving the livestock in the tank? Yea,i understand that it would cause them quite abit of stress,but at the same time wouldn't chasin them about the tank with a net cause them stress also? And what are your opinions on what the uncle told me,about how to remove the bba. And would using a gravel vaccuum help in removing all the excess rubbish at the bottom? cos i don't use base fert but instead i use up brand fert sticks.

Cheers[] []

[sherchoo]

What base fert are you using?

Anyway, I had some problems when I uprooted E.tenellus previously and it also stirred up quite a mess. Not only the shrimps died, a few of my apistos went also. Measured my NO3 level around 5~10ppm, hence I suspect NH4/NO2 poisoning. The filter I'm using was Fluval 303 which I think couldn't handle the bio filtration fast enough to clear the toxic NH/NO2 from the water.
Funny thing is that I have done uprroting quite frequently and it was fine. Oh I did you Jobbes sticks in the gravel, could I have exposed one into the water collumn?

[kubrich]

I don't have base fert. I use some oceans free root moonster and some up brand fert sticks in place of base fert..

Poor apistos...[]

[geoffrey]

Regarding BBA, many advocate manually removing them but the task of removing a moderately to heavily infested tank is near impossible, unless we literally cut off all the leaves of infested plants but what about those on the substrate that cannot be siphoned out? Wouldn't it be better to reset the tank again?

ALternatively, I learnt that we could uproot the infested plants and rinse it with a 1:20 bleach/water mixture and then replant them again. Pretty hairy disturbing the substrate this way since we already have what we do not want in the water column!

That led me to wonder if anyone has ever dealt with BBA without cutting infested leaves but simply through the correction of imbalances and watch those BBA wither?

[Plantbrain]

I think your shrimp died from basically only two things.
High NH4 and/or low O2.

The substrate mulm, detritus and muck consumes O2 rapidly when stirred up. It also has NH4 if there's any in your tank.
The substrate has both reduced iron, etc in there that will remove O2 and is has NH4 which aerobic bacteria will convert to NO2 and NO3. Both of these processess remove O2 in large amounts.

Therefore, after any big hack/trim/algae cleaning etc, do a 50% water change right after, add fresh nutrients for the plants. A light vacuuminmg of the detritus that's settled will remove more of the O2 consuming material.

The fresh nutrients will allow the plants to grow ASAP and produce lots of O2 to oxidize the left overs and re set the tank well.

BBA needs removed first, then CO2 must be maintained in a good range 20-30ppm for the netire lights on cycle.
Adding PO4, K, NO3 enough traces will help.

Regards,
Tom Barr