what causes algae issues?

**bodhisdad** · 10th Jun 2009, 21:23

Hi all, i'm new first post i believe. I have read from many forums and still can't decipher what really causes algae issues. The best i come up with is a imbalance of some sort. I have more then 1 kind of algae and am trying to figure out control measures. This is a non co/2 setup, 2.1 watts per gallon, PH 8.2, need to test KH/GH i know its hard water. I'm running 2 Marineland 350 canisters, setup as bio/mech only filtration. Prior to the last week or so i was having to change out the mechancial batting every 4-5 days i think because of vegetaive debris mostly. I have gotten rid of most the shedy plants like anacharis, cambomba and java moss. They would get coated with algae, shed and end up in my mech pads, intake screen.

I have a 90 gallon thats 48"X 24"X 24" going almost 2 months old now. I started with 1.4 WPG then added a T-8 twin tube for another 64watts putting me over 2WPG. I have been watching my nitrates and keeping them around 10-15ppm, through water chnages. Lights are ON 10 hours a day, down from 12 hours a day. I dose flourish and keep it on the lighter side. I have added root tabs to make up for lack of liquid ferts. I have been adding more flourish thinking maybe, its lack of nutrients? Too much guessing hence my question.

My only control measure is black outs, but this is only good for a week or so, then the algae is back, slowly. I've tried algecides but it seems hard on the plants as well. Used excel on Anubias only to distroy the leafs anyways? So something i'm doing is off, some how? It could be this is all due to the tank being inmature, i'm not densely planted maybe medium. I have a huge piece of DW and stone work in the tank which limits light in some areas. I have attached Java's and anubias to DW to compensate. I've been adding plants as i go along, hoping sooner or later the plants can out compete the algae. My plants are growing, so i know something i'm doing is right, yet something else is off. I lack the experience to say what all i can do is speculate, its frustrating.

Whats some good advice for me and other newbies to planted tanks and algae issues?

Clickable: pic took 3 weeks ago, I have added a tiger lotus in front and between the 2 broad leaf sags. The wisteria is higher and fuller as of now, most plants are a little fuller vs. the picture.

**newtank** · 17th Jun 2009, 09:31

Just by the information you gave, there is most definitely an inbalance, you have all the lights and ferts in place, but without CO2 the photosynthesis process will be lag. And your PH of 8.2, Amonia will not be able to transform to Ammnium and very soon will reach a toxic level for your fish. Your tank is also not planted densely enough, go for some really fast grower and once your tank is matured, you can try taking them out bit by bit, or alternately, you could dump a bunch of floating plants to help suck up some extra nutrient. But from what I can see, a bit of CO2 should help things turn around.

**bodhisdad** · 20th Jun 2009, 00:59

I've had the tank up and running for 2 months now. All my tests come back good. Ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates have been staying around 15-20 around 10 after a WC which i do every week 50%. I'm running 2 cans, setup with bio media only they are marineland 350's, of course i have mech pads in there to catch the debris but no chemical filtration. I understand i'm a little light on the plants i was thinking it would fill in as time went on not over plant then reduce, that may have been wrong to think. This is my first planted tank and only my second tank ever setup.Aside from planting a little denser what should i be looking for high po? I don't know about co/2 yet, i'd rather figure out what is causing the algae in the first place. What plants i do have are growing all have new leaves and are dividing, crypts mostly, a couple broad leaf sags, Java ferns, anubias, nymphaea, wisteria all are putting out new leaves and or dividing and putting out new plants. Not bad for only 2 months i think. Its just figuring out why the algae???

Here is a more recent pic, the above one is a month old.

**naturalmystic** · 20th Jun 2009, 08:53

Bro bodhisdad,

What type of algae is in your tank?
Knowing the type of algae can help to narrow down the root cause.
How about your water circulation? Any dead spots?

**bodhisdad** · 21st Jun 2009, 02:40

sometimes i think all of them

. Mostly hair algae, but i was getting this transparent slimy type growing on the glass, cyno maybe? I do have a brown algae growing on the roots of my java ferns as well? Don't know what kind that is, similar to hair algae only brown.

**Desewer** · 22nd Jun 2009, 08:50

I think your brown algae could be diatoms. I had them in my cycling tank after three weeks. They disappeared within 3 days when I introduced two Otocinclus affinis and five Yamato shrimp.

**newtank** · 22nd Jun 2009, 10:13

Strictly base on my own experience, it is difficult to dose exactly what your tank needs, even the most experience botanist (correct spelling?) will not be able to tell. But I realise if you plant densly, the margin of error seems to be bigger, ie. you can make more mistakes on the rest like lighting, CO2, nutrients, and still the plant mass would sort it out for you.

Leaving Co2 out for the moment while you find out what's wrong might not be a good idea, you are leaving out the most important nutrient plants need and I feel that is too big of a variable.

Have you also checked your Phosphate? I know there is a new school of thought that says Phosphate does not cause algae, but I am from the old school so this is what I will check.

But one common factor bwteen the old and new is that you plant densely and that is really something I would urge you to do.

**bodhisdad** · 23rd Jun 2009, 01:02

Over the next week or two i will get a PO4 test kit as well as some more plants. I agree without knowing where the phosphate is at i'm still just guessing. So that is on my list of necessities when i stop at the LFS later this month. Considering my tank layout, lighting and other factors i was leaning towards a ground cover plant like dwarf sag/ Sagittaria subulata. Purchase enough to fill the holes between what i already have planted. Or is this to small of a plant to consider?

If Po4 is a factor, how do i eliminate it? Are treated mechanical pads the only way of reducing it? I'll be testing the tank as well as my tap water and find out whats what with the PO4.

Thanks for all the replies we'll get this figured out. On a side note i did a blackout last week and so far everything looks good. I left on a mini vacation 4days/3nights and came back to a crystal clear tank, nice. I hope it stays, i'm keeping up with my ferts, where in the past i'd cut back on them, thinking the ferts fuel algae. I'm leaning more towards taking care of the plants and the rest will sort itself out.

**newtank** · 23rd Jun 2009, 22:47

Normally if you have high phosphate, the only way is to do a water change, I have used those phosphate removing pad before but don;t seems to work, or in any case , none of those, nitrate, phosphate or ammonia absorbing pad worked for me.

Normally, the source of phosphate is from fish food so I do not know how one could reduce the souce except to starve the fish.....

I still believe if you take care of the plants , the rest will take care of itself....plant...plant....plant

**newtank** · 24th Jun 2009, 21:04

Originally Posted by newtank

Just by the information you gave, there is most definitely an inbalance, you have all the lights and ferts in place, but without CO2 the photosynthesis process will be lag. And your PH of 8.2, Amonia will not be able to transform to Ammnium and very soon will reach a toxic level for your fish. Your tank is also not planted densely enough, go for some really fast grower and once your tank is matured, you can try taking them out bit by bit, or alternately, you could dump a bunch of floating plants to help suck up some extra nutrient. But from what I can see, a bit of CO2 should help things turn around.

Sorry, wrong information here, if the PH is high , Ammonium will convert to Ammonia and will be toxic to fish.

**bodhisdad** · 24th Jun 2009, 22:47

Originally Posted by newtank

Sorry, wrong information here, if the PH is high , Ammonium will convert to Ammonia and will be toxic to fish.

The PH is high, right out of the tap, nothing to be done for it, the tap water is the same as my tank water, i see no drop in PH as the water ages?
I have good canister filters, both setup as mechanical/bio, filled with bio rings. Plus one can came as a deluxe version with 2 bio wheels. According to the manufacturer each can will filter 350gph X 2 = 700gph when the mech pad is clean and everything is flowing smooth. According to the specs, my tank is getting turned over 7.7 times per hour. I just don't have ammonia problems at all, nor nitrites.

I test this tank nearly daily after i cycled it, i have gotten measurable readings only when the mech pads get to clogged, even then the ammonia is .25 or so. I use the bio wheels speed to tell me when the pads need changing. It used to be twice a week, its now once a week i have to change the mech pad. Which is still alot i've been told, i don't think i'm over stocked. This tank, 90 gallons US is stocked as follows.

0

Boesemani rainbow (Melanotaenia boesemani)
02) Austrailain rainbow (Melanotaenia splendida)
05) Zebra danio (Danio rerio)
03) Denison barbs (Barbus denisonii)
01) Rainbow shark (Epalzeorhynchos frenatus)
02) Chinese algae eaters (Gyrinocheilos aymonieri)
07) yo yo loach (Botia almorhae)
05) zebra loach (Botia striata)
10) Kuhli loach (Pangio Kuhlii)

Most the fish listed have enourmous appetites like the rainbows and the botias, i do feed heavy but then the fish eat heavy and are constantly on the look out for food. Anyone who keeps these fish knows what i mean. Its hard to think that there is any left over food to contribute to phophastes. But my cans do get overly dirty its either food debris or plant matter, i lean towards plant matter as the algae would grow and plants would shed.

AAhhh, the wonders of fish/plant keeping

.

**Abaddon** · 27th Jun 2009, 23:30

You have Egeria Densa in there?

Get a few bunch of those and water sprite. That should solve your algae problem.

**feide** · 28th Jun 2009, 12:25

IMHO, you might try the following
1. Reduce the lighting hours, 10h is too long for your setup. Cut to probably 6hrs for now. Can intro a break in-between. (ie. on 3 hours, off 1 hour, on 3 hours)
2. You need to plant more! Wisteria which you are using is good. Basically add more stems plants.
3. Lower your PH. Adding CO2 will help to lower PH too since carbonic acid is acidic.
4. Add some yamato shrimps, but this is not the cure to the root problem..

Hang on there buddy!

**bodhisdad** · 28th Jun 2009, 21:45

Next trip to the fish store will be for plants and a Po4 test kit. I can see where I need more plants to take up all the extra nutrients. For some reason crypts grow really well along with the wisteria. so i'll try to get a taller crypt for the background like Cryptocoryne crispatula or spiralis i'd still like to use dwarf sag for the bare spots in my foreground don't know if they will grow or not, my broadleaf sags are dying but putting out off shots. Don't know if that is the normal course of life for this plant? Most of the plants i have in the tank are growing well.

I will try to get water sprite last store i went to did not have it, i really like the look of that plants. So i will plant heavier test the PO4 and we'll go from there. I've already priced Co/2 setups and wouldn't rule it out. I would like to figure out why i have algae now though, just for learning purposes.

if my plants i have now are growing well, why would i want to reduce the lighting hours per day? I have read some do this with some success but i don't want to limit my current rate of growth. I may try this later if more plants and Po4 are not factors?

Thanks for the replies i appreciate it.

**bodhisdad** · 2nd Jul 2009, 23:35

I posted pics in the algae section if anyone cares to look and or help, thanks. This is by far the most problematic algae i have the others i could live with, but this one is the one which cause me my sleepless nights, kidding. It does bug me to have to keep doing blackouts only to have it return time and time again. Nitrates i have been keeping low 10ppm then i do a 50% WC. Prior to this nitrates were at 20ppm, thsi is the first week i've tried this so maybe in time the algae will die off? I suppose it depends on what type it is to begin with.