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I do not see any point to have reference color side by side. You don't need to be accurate. As long as the color turn from blue to green slightly toward yellow will do. I don't even have the card anymore.
I'm going to keep this on my list of things to order:
http://www.calaqualabs.com/Doublecheck.html
I can't believe nobody has thought of it before. No more crappy test card guessing. Has anyone used one of these? Does it work well?
-Philosophos
I do not see any point to have reference color side by side. You don't need to be accurate. As long as the color turn from blue to green slightly toward yellow will do. I don't even have the card anymore.
It matters if you're trying to figure out optimum plant growth rates for co2 vs your nutrient base. When I started out keeping fish, a large number of people were paranoid about going over 15ppm. Now we're maintaining 30 and 45 ppm. As it is, we've got a 53% margin of error made worse by cards. I guess a quick glance works for regular maintenance, but it sure isn't as accurate.
Of course this thing is still a hold-out for when we've got osmotic membranes that'll plug in to a pH meter probe. I want my CO2 accurate to a few ppm.
-Philosophos
I don't even have anything to check my CO2 level. I inject 1-2 bps then just observe the growth and the fish behavior.Originally Posted by Shadow
Well, a single drop check is good enough for most
Regards
William
You don't have to check your CO2 level with a drop checker. It sure helps though. I've used it for diagnostic purposes more than any other test. It's also nice to know when you're hitting optimum CO2 levels rather than just watching for when the fish head to the surface.
Good testing abilities aren't vital to a good looking tank. They are, how ever, vital to some one who wants to play with the parameters. I like to know when my CO2 has peaked as soon as possible. If CO2 is non-limiting according to the drop checker, but the plants aren't pearling, then I can stop looking at CO2 as the issue and start addressing other issues.
Back in the early 1900's, a kerosene burner and daphnia from a pond was considered fancy. What's good enough for the average person is just fine for most, but knowledge of a field has never expanded through ignoring empirical evidence.
-Philosophos
Yippie!! Reptiles and Fishies!
works pretty well.
I am using it. Frankly speaking, the idea of having a reference indicator is a waste of time. After a while, you will know the optimum color.
I filled up the reference indicator and the ph indicator with the solutions given, only twice. Now I am using ADA PH indicator solution. And left the reference empty.
And why I bought it? Because there is no stock for ADA drop checker at the point of purchase.
When I understood and became conversant with the use of a drop-checker; I realised that it would be better with some improvements. I posted some desired improvements (http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/di...p-checker.html) which I am reproducing here:-
I would like to add the following improvements to the DIY drop-checker:-
1) Air tube behind the indicator chamber.
2) Wall between the indicator chamber and air tube to be made with white opaque acrylic.
3) Two more chambers, one on either side.
4) First chamber containing transparent colour chart in the front and a white LED light with reflectors directing the light sideways through the indicator and forward through the ph colour chart.
5) Second chamber containing a green colour filter on the indicator side and photo resistor inside to be affected by the light through the indicator.
6) The outer walls - back, sides, top, bottom - to be made of opaque acrylic.
7) The common ground and the other two wires sealed and going to a beeper system arranged for alarm/or a digital system(in which case you would need magenta, cyan, yellow filters before their respective photoresistors)
A rolling stone which has come to rest
problem is drop checker is not real time, it take maybe 2-4 hours (not sure the exact time) before the color start to change. Thus it can be use for real time measurement. by the time your alarm ring, it 2-4 hours too late.
For real time sensor, you might want to use osmotic membranes like Philosophos used.
I wonder where can I get this membrane
The membrane thing is in the works by someone or other on the Barr report last I heard. If it does come out, I hope they sell the patent off to Seachem or the like so that it becomes a standard thing in the hobby.
Interpreting the, "right" color for a drop checker is greatly impacted even by things like indirect sunlight at different times of day. I'm sure enough people pile impurities in to their bottle of 4dKH solution through mishandling pipettes, as well. As nice as an advancement as they are, I can't wait for them to be outdated.
-Philosophos
so is the ph paper real time ?
it may more expensive in the long run but a quick dip is all u nid if its realtime
mine drop checker is showing 7 most of the time, all mine plants is pearling except the HC
you can't use that because the pH you are measuring may not due to CO2.
Liquid and paper pH tests annoyed me between price and inaccuracy enough that I got a meter. It was something like $90USD for it plus calibration solutions, and now I've got a resolution of .01 with a margin of error at +/- .01. With a titration pH test, the best I've been able to do is about .2, some times as bad as .4. After that, I'm left worrying about expiration dates and contamination.
Now I've got a nutty idea. Just bare with me here.
With so many of you in Singapore, it'd probably be pretty easy to get each others tap water tested. Just set up meetings now and then, and everyone who buys a meter can get everything else tested for free. Maybe charge a small fee for cost of cleaning/calibration solutions to people who haven't bought one them selves. If you're all on fairly much the same water supply, experiencing the same seasons, then you could get a detailed report from the water company to distribute/post as a sticky here. From there, it's a matter of figuring out what the pipes will leech in; mostly iron and copper to worry about I'd think. Test the best and worst taps for leeching metals at the hottest and coolest times of the year, and evaluate the standard % of deviation for both.
So, once you're all standardized and know the margin of error, you can publish the variation of the water everyone starts with. After that, the rest should be a matter of figuring out good scientific methods for each step, and sharing tools to test each method. Perhaps a monthly meeting for testing and experimenting.
Maybe you're already doing something like that. There seems to be a lot of fish stores there, and it wouldn't surprise me if there were a dozen fish clubs on that one island.
-Philosophos
I believe we did this before, there was a thread about it. Apparently even though Singapore is small island, different part of Singapore have different pH reading. Not sure how accurate digital pH meter is, but it is pretty cheap, you can get one for S$35 excluding calibration solution, you need to buy seperately.
oh.... why do u all need the ph so accurate ?
any specific objective in obtaining the actual PH
i can understand for those dealing with CRS
Like William said IMH0 For normal planted tanks dun haf to be so "Yim Jim" about
the PH....jus as long as the growth is lust and healthy and the fish
is active.
For fun or curiosity I guessat least for me.
You are right, even for CRS you no need to be that accurate. For planted tank to be honest you don't even need pH tester, you don't even need any tester at all.
I guess some people are more picky, for example at other forum some of the member is unhappy when I told them to increase the CO2 until fish gasping for air and turn it down after that. He wrote easy on how cruel it is...bla-bla-bla...
Back to your drop checker always show 7, did you use KH = 4 solution instead of your tank water? it is the same reason why you can use pH paper to determine the CO2 level.
Shadow, I'll have to try to find that thread. Varying pH between taps sounds interesting. I wonder if the concentration of iron correlated with the change in pH.
Inque, I keep my pH testing accurate because a high range liquid test kit has problems identifying between 7.4 and 7.8. If something goes wrong with the aquarium, 7.4 causes a bit of worry. 7.8pH causes panic, because the plants and fish might start dieing off, and it may indicate a massive KH boost. Also, for spawning some fish, gender ratios are heavily effected by pH and temperature.
-Philosophos
oh ....are u in the States ? I think SG side dun haf such a big problem.
generally speaking its quite stable.
You will be surprise
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=35670
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=32338
mine is planted tank, so more forgiving
Ya, I'm Canadian but in the US for a bit while dealing with surgery. The water here is kind of like the stuff I dealt with in Canada; high pH, swings by .2-.4 with the seasons. It's amazing how much a pile of melting snow can change the water.
Shadow, those pH variants were amazing. 9.1??? If I got that out my tap, I'd be calling a plumber and the water department.
-Philosophos
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