South American Biotope (assistance needed)

[Verminator]

To specify in greater detail its basically Guatemala, Yucatan(mexico) and Honduras i'm interested in. Basically creating a plan for a more permanent home for my dempseys. So South American Biotope i figured would be rather fitting

Now my list of plants is fine, suggestions are welcome...although i have a fair few ideas. Don't hesistate to shout any out if you know some good ones.

Substrate, was thinking ADA Amazonia Quite fitting i believe, certainly nutritious enough to home my Echinodorus' that i plan to get predominantly.

The big thing i'm struggling to find, is wood and rocks. Now i've been trying in vain so far to find South American wood/rocks, but so far i'm coming up trumps. Searching for origins of wood/rocks has so far proved alot more difficult in obtaining. Many sites show plenty of choice, but fail to inform on their origins. Manual searching is proving rewardless. I'm hoping people here might have some ideas.

Thanks

[illumnae]

Do you have pictures of the biotope environment you're trying to emulate? You don't really have to find wood and rocks with origins from South America. You could see what it looks like and what presently available to you looks most like it.

My experience with South American biotope tanks is limited to research on what the Brazilian, Peruvian and Colombian portions of the Amazon river look like. In my research, I've found that the fish actually prefer living in sandy river substrate with minimal plants. Lots of root-like overhanging wood and some granite scattered around if you so desire (not necessary). In my Rio Tefe biotope, I ended up using just a few pieces of granite, fine river sand, lots of bogwood arranged into a tangled structure behind where the fish can swim in to hide and amazon frogbits floating at the surface providing cover and hanging roots. My wild discus seem to love it

[illumnae]

Ok I've done some brief research, here's a brief excerpt from mogabay:

Central America is rich with rivers flowing from rainforests and highlands. These rivers are abundant with river shrimp which provide a strong food base for larger fish like cichlids. The cichlids in these rivers are generally not as territorial and aggressive as those of the Central American lakes.

Often Central American rivers are relatively clear as they flow out of the highlands, sometimes blueish or greenish in color with a moderate amount of dissolved minerals. In the lowlands these rivers become increasingly muddy, especially in areas where there has been deforestation (i.e. much of Central America) and after rains.

Typically these rivers are rocky with sand or rock substrates. In rainforests there may be dense plant growth along the edge of the river with some plants rooted underwater but growing out of the water.

The current varies greatly in rivers -- from still backwaters/ponds to swirling eddies to roaring whitewater rapids. For this biotope I suggest low to moderate current.

For a Central American biotope you can either go with an "aggressive" tank with Central American cichlids or a typial community tank or livebearers. It's not a good idea to mix the two since livebearers are often a natural food source for wild cichlids.

WATER:
pH: 7.0-7.8, 5-10 dH, 72-79 F (22-26 C)

TANK:
The tank should be large with open swimming areas, submerged wood, river rocks, and a fine gravel or sand substrate. There should be a moderate current created by a filter that can handle large fish that consume lots of food.
The tank should be brightly illuminated.

Live plants will not last long with rough cichlids. An alternative is plastic plants. Rocks can be used to create territories and shelters for cichlids. Be sure rocks are well anchored since Central American cichlids are active diggers.

PLANTS:
Vallisneria, Cabomba, Limnobium, Myriophyllum, some species of Sword plant

Remember that live plants will likely be thrashed (both eaten and uprooted) by many Central American cichlid species.

...

Honduran River:

...

Jack Dempsey - Cichlasoma octofasciatum "Occurs in swampy areas with warm, murky water. Found in weedy, mud-bottomed and sand-bottomed canals and drainage ditches ... Prefers coastal plains and slow moving waters of the lower river valleys ... Feeds on worms, crustaceans, insects and fish" [quote: Fishbase.org]

Jack Dempseys are one of the fish listed in this description of the biotope. It may seem that you may need to rethink some of what you intend to do. E.g. soil may not be such a good idea, since it recommends sand and mud and not soil unless you don't mind crushing all your ada soil into mud from the outset. Ada soil is good for plants no doubt, but I think it has no place in a biotope setup. This makes sense also given that Jack Dempseys are substrate spawners and would probably prefer a more substantial substrate like sand or mud and not loose soil.

[Verminator]

Yes, was thinking Amazonia soil would be a step to far. Perhaps sand with hardier echi's is more preferable. As for wood i guess your right too, standard bogwood that looks like root systems would be ideal to have around the back areas of my tank. Shall certainly be looking into rocks more closely as they seem to still be the uncertainty. My dempseys are only young, my male being just under 3.5 inches.

Unfortunately i don't have any images of what i'm trying to achieve, somewhat hard to come by. Google doesnt have much in the way of pictures of a river under the surface of the water, which is the part im interested in obviously haha. Nevermind, the research continues. Your input is greatly appreciated, thanks!

[illumnae]

You can try to PM Heiko Bleher and ask him if he has any advice for you. The reason I was able to set up my Rio Tefe biotope with such ease was because he's been very vocal on various forums I visit about what the proper biotope setup for discus should look like. Having read all his posts, I had a clear idea of what I needed to make my fish feel literally "at home".

[Orcishwarrior]

IMO, take some time browsing through Youtube.com. Motion pictures of Amazon biotope will be shown to you.
Love youtube for that

[Philosophos]

Find the national parks relevant to your biotope. Find one that has some research projects related to it. There should at least be surveys of the trees and geology of the area. If all else fails, e-mail or phone them.

Jack Dempsies might not be too kind to your plants. I hope you've got some tough ones picked out. They dig, too.

-Philosophos

[Verminator]

Thanks, this little project of mine is coming along quite nicely now.

My Dempseys are quite well behaved at this stage in terms of digging/nibbling plants. I'm not expecting this to continue as i know the bigger they get the more prone to this they'll become. But for now they're well behaved

Tank Specs to date:
Substrate: Any fine aquatic sand
Hardscape: Manzanita wood (possibly) or just normal DW with granite rocks
Plants: Tall vallis all around back perimeter with maybe one or two large Echi's.

Once the funds are saved up this will be redone in the coming months (after i finally get my 2ft iwagumi up and running.

[illumnae]

be careful with fine sand and plants. You can't have too thick a layer of fine sand or the sand may compact and anaerobic pockets may form. The plants may also not do so well if the sand is too fine.

[Verminator]

Yes i'm aware of this. Thanks for reminding me though. I plan on having a thin layer of sand, not the finest of sand either. Deep sand with dempseys is pointless anyway. No matter how deep you put it in an aquarium they tend to dig an open patch to the bottom layer of glass regardless. So a thin layer will be beneficial in saving money, and for the Echi's i plan to plant.