Seachem Flourish Excel - Safe to OD?

**mordrake** · 9th Apr 2009, 14:12

having some staghorn algae issues for my 2ft iwa.
thinking of doing blackout with excel dosing.

anyone have experience with OD excel in CRS tanks? what about normal dosage?
thanks

**jetset** · 9th Apr 2009, 18:22

Tried Seachem Excel over the weekend... so far too soon to see results....

Tank 1: Shrimp tank with CRS, BDS, Cherries. CRS went crazy and swam around non-stop.... 1 CRS casualty the next day.

Tank 2: Guppy tank. No obvious reaction from fauna but 1 dead guppy the next day.

Tank 3: Comm tank with Neons, Galaxies, Hasbrosus & Pygmy cories. Dosed the most and no reaction from fauna. No casualties.

Tank 4: Goldfish tank. No reaction from fauna and no casualties.

Still monitoring before I add more but will probably stop dosing the shrimp tank.

**ghim** · 14th Apr 2009, 00:28

My experience with Seachem Excel for shrimp tank is bad. I tried "shooting" BBA in my 30cm cube shrimp tank. The shrimps start to swim like crazy. So I panic and quickly turn on an airpump. Luckily no casualties.

However I do inject Excel in my 2ft tank to kill BBA. Till date, the shrimps are doing fine.

I would advise not to use Excel for shrimp tank. If you really want to use, 1/4 of the suggested dosage would be ok.

For iwa scape, it promote staghorn algae and green spot algae. Staghorn algae can be controlled with better water circulation. Just remove manually, and increase the flowrate.

**mordrake** · 14th Apr 2009, 12:37

my 2036 ecco pro si 700+l/hr, not enough?
anyway, i'm into 2nd day of blackout and excel treatment.
40-50% WC daily with 5ml of excel for 3 days. 1st day added 20-30ppm KNO3 and 4+ppm PO4.

so far no shrimp casualties but don't seem to see the staghorn dying. any colour change for staghorn when it dies? like BBA turning reddish?

**Philosophos** · 14th Apr 2009, 13:18

I've dosed 8ml of excel on my 20g with yamato shrimp more than once without any trouble. CRS might be touchier. Mechanically remove as much as you can; it will help. The water changes are good for reducing algae, but not necessary every time you use excel. Excel's active ingredient is glutaraldehyde, and it dissipates within 12 hours in the average aquarium from what I understand. I'm not sure if this is due to exposure to light, or something else.

-Philosophos

**jetset** · 14th Apr 2009, 13:36

Extracted from wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutaraldehyde

A polymerizedisomer of glutaraldehyde known as polycycloglutaracetal is a fertilizer for aquatic plants. It is claimed that it provides a bioavailable source of carbon for higher plants that is not available to algae. Though not marketed as such due to federal regulations, the biocidal effect of glutaraldehyde kills most algae at concentrations of 0.5 - 5.0 ppm. These levels are not harmful to most aquatic fauna and flora. Adverse reactions have been observed by some aquarists at these concentrations in some aquatic mosses, liverworts, and vascular plants.

Also note:

It is employed as an embalming fluid, is a component of leather tanning solutions, and occurs as an intermediate in the production of certain industrial chemicals.

**Philosophos** · 14th Apr 2009, 15:02

Pure hydrogen peroxide will fuel rockets, burn through metal and bleach hair. It evaporates to form an aerosal explosive at concentrations higher than 70%. At 3% I use it to disinfect my cuts. It's the dose that makes the poison.

I made a post on the topic of glutaraldehyde a while back with some sources:
http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...43&postcount=8

Even trout eggs like the stuff. If you want to scare a new fish keeper in to performing water changes obsessively, throw LD50 values for trout at them.

-Philosophos

**mordrake** · 15th Apr 2009, 11:21

spotted a couple of casualties last night. 1 S and 1 white.
tonight will take stock when blackout ends...

**mordrake** · 15th Apr 2009, 20:23

staghorn situation improved abit. No other shrimp casualties. 1 red red rcs berried. Bds n crs ok. Phew. I think extra aeration helped alot.

**mordrake** · 16th Apr 2009, 18:07

bad news. after WC yesterday, i turned back the lights and CO2.
also added excel but at recommended dosage.
this morning, 2 S gone. the rest of the shrimps (RCS and CRS) at the surface.
quickly put in airstone that was removed earlier. hope i won't have anymore casualties when i reach home

**blue33** · 16th Apr 2009, 18:35

Change more frequent water and try to increase the water circulation or stronger filter will help in algae.

Excel is too strong for CRS.

**mordrake** · 16th Apr 2009, 23:07

will get a tunze mini to increase circulation. Tks

**Philosophos** · 17th Apr 2009, 12:56

CO2 OD causes a lot of casualties. Glad you avoided losing too much. What are your ferts? Maybe you've got a deficiency that the staghorn is making use of.

-Philosophos

**mordrake** · 17th Apr 2009, 13:21

Originally Posted by Philosophos

CO2 OD causes a lot of casualties. Glad you avoided losing too much. What are your ferts? Maybe you've got a deficiency that the staghorn is making use of.

-Philosophos

things have settled down somewhat. at least i avoided a total wipeout. the BDS were not affected at all though.

i initially wanted to get wondergro but bought ferka instead.
so now i dose ferka aqualizer and balance K daily 1 pump
twice weekly dry dose of KNO3 (15-20ppm) and PO4 (a pinch ~ 4+ppm?)

**Fuzzy** · 18th Apr 2009, 06:49

Personally having read all the feedback involving Excel and inverts, I'd be inclined to stay away from it.

Its much easier to control (and to a certain degree remove) CO2 from a system than it is to dose excel (and remove it)

Thankfully I've not had issues with BBA, but if I did I would be more inclined to try application of Hydrogen Peroxide before I tried excel. In order to minimize the risk to my CRS I've even stopped CO2 injection to that tank.

The plants seem to be doing fine, but I have not picked very demanding plants. my HC carpet failed miserably, and Riccia was too much maintenance for my liking. So I've resigned to keeping this primarily as a CRS tank, and only secondarily as a planted.

My mini pellia and other mosses are doing great though. But I am still battling hair algae, even with malayans in there with my CRS.

I'm using Amazon Frogbits and duckweed for nutrient export, and they are growing fast enough to cover the entire top of a 2ft Fiveplan tank with fairly high density, inside of 3 weeks.

I usually thin them down to about 5% coverage of the surface each time. And I don't even dose any fertilizers in this tank.

IMHO if you're breeding CRS, go for a moss heavy tank. If you're looking to create an awesome planted tank, stick to fish and maybe Yamato shrimp.

The more I read around the more I see these two tanks types as mutually exclusive.

You _could_ if you really wanted to try to maintain a high fert dosage, high lighting, high tech planted CRS tank, but I think the challenge of either one type at a time should be enough for most aquarists.