Sunlight does not produce algae any more

[essabee]

Sunlight does not produce algae any more than any other artificial light of high intensity. Then why do most planted tank enthusiasts have algae problems with sunlight?

It’s not the sunlight simply that is the algae grower but the direction from which this light is applied. Direct or indirect sunlight, lighting up your aquarium from the side is surely going to produce algae; so would artificial light if applied from the side glass of the tank. The light under such condition would first pass through the side glass, where algae can grow, before reaching the plants. The growth of the algae will effectively stop the light from reaching the plants, and thereby cut of the competition from the plants for the nutrition in the water column.
If the sunlight is not allowed to enter from the sides but from the top only; the problem with sunlight disappears and you are left only with the conventional problems with a high lighted aquarium. This conception led me to build my ‘Incomparable’. The three sunny sides of this aquarium has been built using granite sheets instead of glass, and the fourth, glass naturally, faces the room flush with the wall. The dimension are 6’ x 3’ x 2’ high.

This aquarium is housed under a 3.5’ concrete projection from the room on to the terrace, about 30” above it. I have covered the intervening space with aluminum framed glass, very much like a casement window. These three sides make the North, East and South of the aquarium top. So I get the morning sun streaming into the aquarium. The Western side of the aquarium is my fish room, and I have a hatch door above the aquarium. The back of the hatch door is a mirror. Reflection from the mirror lightens up the Eastern side of the aquarium while the sun is still low on the horizon.

Yes I do get algae, green spot algae on the glass, not much but not nil. It’s not a problem but it does need to be scraped off during weekly water changes. If sunlight was so algae producing would you not have expected me to have much more algae than that? Can you believe that inspite of having so much direct and indirect sunlight; I supplement it with 12 hours of 150W x 3 MH 8500K + 40W x 5 Strip true daylight?

[mordrake]

who said sunlight induce algae?
algae outbreaks stem from ammonia spike coupled with light source.
rate of algae production is determined by intensity of light source.

[detritus]

i do not quite understand where you're coming from...

light is just light, no matter where u place it. once the tank is out of sync due to too much light, too much waste, insufficient plants to absorb nitrates or poor filtration and circulation, the smallest window of opportunity will enable algae to get a foothold and wreck havoc on the tank.

algae also does not solely present itself as algae stains on glass that blocks out light. there's also the notorious green water and they will simply infest any tank that is off-sync and especially when faced with sunlight.

if you have recurring problems with algae stains on the same spot in the tank, it could be because u have a dead-spot.

i think the reason you have very little algae is simply because u have a heavily planted tank that is well balanced and well maintained rather than due to your esoteric theory about light in the "right" places.

[gemo82]

I believe the thread starter is just trying to bust the myth that sunlight causes algae bloom, a myth he heard somewhere.... This myth can be true to a certain extend as an experienced enthusiast may fail to take into account the unpredictable exposure of sunlight into the aquarium, thus not catering enough fertilisers and nutrients to create a balance. Even for the experienced hobbyists, the unpredictable intensity of sunlight is hard to control and heats up the water; many would rather not depend on it for illumination.

What essabee pointed out is interesting to note: that high intensity light from the sides of the glass tank causes algae to form on the sides of the glass, whether natural or artificial light. Maybe someone can try shinning their MH from the sides of the tank instead of the top, keeping other factors like fertiliser regimen the same, to see if such a situation will occur.

Still, I would prefer to see it that the sunlight is used as a supplemental lighting for your tank, instead of the lighting supplementing the sunlight. But then again, in view of the problems associated with using sunlight, I would rather not use it at all even as a supplement and rely totally on artificial lights. This is of course unless you are aiming to cut down on electrical bills.

[detritus]

its not a myth dude... my tanks have always been in the balcony and i've always had problems with green water simple solution is to move the tank but i can't because i don't have other suitable spaces in the apartment.

problem is, as u pointed out, its not easy to achieve balance if the tank is exposed to fluctuating levels of sunlight of varying intensity over the course of the day. u won't know if u're over-feeding, over-dosing on fertilizer or even whether u have enough plants because the formula keeps changing when its a sunny day or when its a cloudy day.

its a serious uphill task to try to control algae when the tank is exposed to direct sunlight.

i've been using UV to control algae ever since.

[Shadow]

Unfortunately many hobbyist still think that sunlight is cause for algae (bloom). In the sense it s true, no light and there won't be algae. There won't be plants either

Question is if sunlight cause algae (bloom) why not all those river, lake, etc filled with algae?

Since sunlight not causing algae (bloom) in the river, then logically the statement sunlight causing algae (bloom) is false.

[detritus]

not to be picking a fight or anything, but algae does exist in nature...

what we do not see in a balanced eco-system, is an algae bloom that kills off other flora and fauna.

[Shadow]

ok my mistake, I should rephrase the word "algae" with uncontrolled algae grow (algae bloom) thanks for pointing out

Anyway, look at Diana Walstad "el Natural" method. The method is using natural sunlight.

Problem with sunlight is the intensity, much higher than light bulb (FL/T5 even MH). The higher the intensity, plant grow faster but algae also grow faster . Little mishaps and algae will take over. Fertilizer dosing become critical to supply all the nutrient need by the plant for it fast grow. This is where Estimate Index (EI )come in handy. The important information from EI is that excess fertilizer does not cause algae bloom unless you dose with Ammonia. EI tremendously simplify fertilizer dosing regime. The EI also show that Ammonia is the culprit for algae bloom. As long as you can make sure low Ammonia level either by daily water change, fast growing plants, etc, algae will stay away.

[vinz]

Nature does not have glass walls either.

Light... be it sunlight or artificial light, does NOT cause algae... or DOES cause algae, depending on one's perspective.

What I see in the threads above is some people debating over the wrong point. So, let's filter this down, so we DISCUSS what's relevant.

1. Algae needs light to grow. And so do plants.
2. We try to control algae by giving our tanks the right conditions for our plants to out-compete the algae, and the wrong conditions for algae to thrive.
3. The right conditions, in brief, is the right balance of light, nutrients (including CO2) and environmental conditions (such as temperature, water circulation, etc).

In my opinion, growing algae free tanks with sunlight are usually difficult because we cannot control the amount of light coming from the sun.

1. The earth's tilt changes through the year... the amount of sunlight varies, especially for the temperate regions. It should be less of a problem for us on the equator, BUT the angle still changes a fair bit for dawn and dusk.
2. Clouds and rain... enough said.

We lose control of one factor... LIGHT. (We also lose control over temperature, as direct sunlight will heat up the tank, but we can always rely on a good chiller to fix that.)

While the light source varies, we are unable to respond on a daily (or even weekly) basis to adjust our nutrient dosing to match.

Those of us who have been in this long enough know one thing for sure... inconsistent conditions = poor plant growth = algae bloom!

So why does that not happen in nature?

1. Natural bodies of water are usually MANY times larger than our tanks. They have the size to buffer changes much better.
2. They aren't usually as densely pack as our tanks are... hence do not need the un-naturally high levels of nutrients that we dose. There may be areas where plants grow in dense packs, but there are also other areas of the same body of water that is bare.
3. Plants in nature grow where they can thrive (we on the other hand, insist on growing them where they aren't meant to, like growing riccia 2 feet deep, when in nature they actually grow in much shallower water where they get lots of natural sunlight). I.e. where there is the right combination of light, nutrients and environmental conditions. When those conditions change for whatever reason, the plants die... and maybe grow elsewhere where the conditions have changed to support plants. (E.g. a tree grows larger and overshadows an area over the years, and another elsewhere may been downed by lightning).
4. The plant that can grow in a specific range of conditions will grow in the niche that has that set of conditions. I.e. Anubias, Cryptocoryne, etc, will grow in areas of moderate to low light. Hygrophylia (sp?), hairgrass, etc, will grow in areas with bright light. In our tanks, we have a tendency to try and grow everything under the same amount of light... we only try to meet their requirements by planting them in different parts of the tank or using bright light plants to shade low light plants, etc.

In nature, plants can grow algae free (or less algae) because conditions in those areas favors them and not algae. There are also places in nature (often than not in the same body of water) where you will see less plants, and plenty of algae. When conditions change, the life there also changes. Some times, we also see nice big stands of plants and nearby are rocks/pebbles with a beautiful coating of green algae!

In my opinion, it's not impossible to grow planted tanks with sunlight, just difficult due to the constantly varying light levels. With the larger tanks, we can probably adjust our dosing routines to fit a annual cycle... still that will probably mean lots of trial and errors over many years and probably a way to measure and record light levels throughout the year and then figuring out a proper annual routine. Anyone up to the challenge?

A good alternative is probably solar powered lights coupled to the main power source. The lights are powered by sunlight, BUT when the sunlight cannot generate enough power, it draws from the main power source.

Or, standby lights connected to a light sensor. The light sensor adjusts the intensity of the lights given the amount of sunlight available. However... the standby lights probably blocks the sunlight.

[vinz]

After typing so much... I forgot the point of my post.

Let's not talk about whether sunlight is the cause of algae (it is NOT). Let's talk about how to grow planted tanks with sunlight.

Or, whether it's practical to grow planted tanks with direct sunlight.

Let's exclude ponds as they are different from tanks in one fundamental way... people usually do not care about algae on the walls of the pond! Or that the bottoms of their stemmed plants look scraggly!

[vinz]

...

Anyway, look at Diana Walstad "el Natural" method. The method is using natural sunlight.

I have to dig out my book again... but I don't recall that she proposed sunlight in the book. Or are you talking about her follow up work on the topic? I stopped keeping track.

...Problem with sunlight is the intensity, much higher than light bulb (FL/T5 even MH). ...

I think few of us can place tanks under direct sunlight. We probably have to be content with direct sunlight at dawn or dusk which would be less intense than noon sun and than the rest of the day to depend on a very bright area of the house (white walls/floor near the window). So intensity is not really a very direct problem.

Then, of course, our plants start to tilt towards the window!!! Hahahah!

[Shadow]

She is using natural sunlight with supplement 1.5 WPG light (or maybe the other way around). The exact number can be mistaken, quite a while ago when I read post about el natural.

[footballe]

Problem with sunlight is the intensity, much higher than light bulb (FL/T5 even MH).

thanks for the clarification, i had always wanted to ask this question before.

But 1 thing i don't understand is, how come my HC can't survive under direct sunlight. Maybe there are other factors, I will do a test again if got the chance

[Shadow]

should be able, are you growing it emerse or submerse? if emerse, you must keep it moisture.

[CK Yeo]

OT. But I use to grow HC dry. If you want to grow it submerse, it gets a bit more complicated then just satisfying the light requirement.


Ok, back to topic: I think it is too general (and old) to say sunlight does/does not cause algae. It really depends on how you control it (CO2, fertlizers, grazers, plant mass, etc). Nature certainly doesn't use T5, MH or CF to light our rivers.

I have a sun lit tank too and the only thing I supply is CO2 and fertilizers. Algae is not a problem though I must clarify that it only gets a bit of direct morning sun. The tank stays bright throughout the day for the plant to even pearl. FWIW, light comes from mostly the side. Nope, no green spot algae either.

ck

[rwalker]

Hi essabee, thanks for sharing your experience. You may want to share your tank conditions and dosing routine.

Yes, the discussion should be on how to grow plants with direct/indirect sunlights. If we always limit our minds and discussion to something we know, and exclude other possibilities, then we will never improve.

[StanChung]

Well said Vincent-
After all is said, I like the idea of using solar panels to power the lights. I used to think whether it was possible to use fiber optic cables to channel the light into the tank. Cool idea eh?


I've seen a few examples of supplementing sunlight[vice versa] and frankly the results are not great except for one guy in Europe.[Spain I think]

As for myself I let the window light supplement the lighting for japanese hairgrass and it works well enough. Only the usual GSA[green spot algae]. The lighting period is of course tailored to day time- 8 hours. [3ft tank with already 216W of lighting.]

[essabee]

Hi essabee, thanks for sharing your experience. You may want to share your tank conditions and dosing routine.

I would like not to shock most of you by telling you all about my methods at the same time. You see I developed my aquarium hobby in isolation - http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=54123. So let me disclose first that I use under-gravel filter in my aquarium. It is of a design which I have developed on my own. Will you all be interested in reading about it ????

[vinz]

Essabee,

Yes, please share. We always want to know if there are better or more interesting ways to grow a planted tank.

[essabee]

^ Vincent - I have complied with your request by posting a new thread "An UGF for a Planted Tank" (http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...288#post449288)