How to determine EI doses for new tank.

**shrimppaste** · 30th Jun 2009, 22:56

Hi everyone,

I am starting a new planted tank and have decided to use the EI method. However, my question is how much should I dose when the tank is newly planted? I mean is tehre a formula? Like should the light be on for only 4 hours a day and thus to half the dosing in terms o PPI etc? Thanks! Please help cause my tank is coming this weekend!!!!!HAHAHAHAH! EXCITED!

**christopher.wtc** · 1st Jul 2009, 02:22

Hi shrimppaste,
My style is to go straight into it, no formula. Start EI dosing full face with lightings of 8 to 9 hours. I do like to turn the lights on a few hours after sun rises and turn them off a few hours before sun set, say from 9am to 6pm.

**barmby** · 1st Jul 2009, 09:19

I am starting a new planted tank and have decided to use the EI method.

shrimppaste, do look into your CO2 first. It is easy to dump fertilizer into the tank, but getting the correct amount of CO2 during photo period is the most difficult.

**Shadow** · 1st Jul 2009, 10:03

just inject CO2 excessively, you don't have any fauna for the first few weeks anyway

**shrimppaste** · 1st Jul 2009, 11:56

I mean I have this concern because I have heard from a LFS owner a few years back that when we first started, the roots are not firmly set up yet, so the plants will not be able to take up the nutrients fully, so will create algae etc. I mean I don't know how true this is.

So the consensus on all the experts here is to directly go to 8 hours with the full CO2? Thanks!

And the idea issue I have is the photo hour. I only come home from work at around 7+ so this means that I will not get to see my nice tank!!!

Is it ok if I do 12pm to 8pm? HAhaha! I mean my tank is not beside any strong sunlight source.

Oh by the way, straying a bit. I am thinking of the theme for my tank and is basically gravitating towards an asian tank with Boraras and Parosphromenus, chocolate gouramis etc, but the problem with this is that I have read that they are not that suitable for a tank with a lot of current? But at the same time, I want more current to distribute my CO2 better.

So would a better choice be an amazon tank? With tetras and apistos?

**blue33** · 1st Jul 2009, 12:07

Originally Posted by Shadow

just inject CO2 excessively, you don't have any fauna for the first few weeks anyway

CO2 Excessively???... You're committing suicide to the bb(bacteria).

...

**Shadow** · 1st Jul 2009, 13:40

won't be so sure about that. How much ppm does water can hold CO2? or how many ppm before most of CO2 bubble from your diffuser goes to atmosphere (CO2 ppm stay the same no mater how much CO2 injected)? Will that level enough to kill BB?

I have two occasion where CO2 injected uncontrollably into the tank. It kill all the fauna but I can put new fauna next day without the need of re-cycle the filter.

**Shadow** · 1st Jul 2009, 13:51

Originally Posted by shrimppaste

I mean I have this concern because I have heard from a LFS owner a few years back that when we first started, the roots are not firmly set up yet, so the plants will not be able to take up the nutrients fully, so will create algae etc. I mean I don't know how true this is.

This probably true, plant will try to adapt to new environment before start growing and use the nutrient. Depending on the plant of course. Some plant like Elatine triandra start growing on the 3rd day from planting.

Originally Posted by shrimppaste

Is it ok if I do 12pm to 8pm? HAhaha! I mean my tank is not beside any strong sunlight source.

It is OK

Originally Posted by shrimppaste

Oh by the way, straying a bit. I am thinking of the theme for my tank and is basically gravitating towards an asian tank with Boraras and Parosphromenus, chocolate gouramis etc, but the problem with this is that I have read that they are not that suitable for a tank with a lot of current?

In my opinion, as long as they have place to rest, place with less current, it should be OK. My Boraras brigitae like strong flow though, I always saw them purposely swimming in front of water outlet.

**blue33** · 1st Jul 2009, 14:51

Originally Posted by Shadow

won't be so sure about that. How much ppm does water can hold CO2? or how many ppm before most of CO2 bubble from your diffuser goes to atmosphere (CO2 ppm stay the same no mater how much CO2 injected)? Will that level enough to kill BB?

I have two occasion where CO2 injected uncontrollably into the tank. It kill all the fauna but I can put new fauna next day without the need of re-cycle the filter.

If is not true then i guess what Amano mention is not true in online Aqua Journal.

If the water cant hold the CO2 then your fauna would not have being kill in the first place, am i right?

If your CO2 can kill your fauna i dont see why it cannot kill your bb?

**PeterGwee** · 1st Jul 2009, 17:10

Bacteria's tolerance towards high CO2 and low O2 should well be much higher than most critters/fish. Fish might start to gasp/die if the dissolved oxygen level goes below 4ppm but bacteria can still survive at 0.5ppm and below for several hours.

Regards,
Peter Gwee

**PeterGwee** · 1st Jul 2009, 17:14

Originally Posted by shrimppaste

I mean I have this concern because I have heard from a LFS owner a few years back that when we first started, the roots are not firmly set up yet, so the plants will not be able to take up the nutrients fully, so will create algae etc. I mean I don't know how true this is.

New soil based substrates like ADA aquasoil leeches high amount of NH4 which is why you get algae blooms in new tanks rather than plants not taking up nutrients due to lack of roots. Plants take in nutrients from both the leaves and substrates depending on which area has abundant of resources. New tanks are better off with doing large frequent water changes to offset the NH4 leeching.

Regards,
Peter Gwee

**Shadow** · 1st Jul 2009, 18:01

Originally Posted by blue33

If is not true then i guess what Amano mention is not true in online Aqua Journal.

I hate to say this but not all that Amano said is alway true. Well, not all that I said true either

, we are all human do make mistake

Anyway, Fertilizer article at Aquajournal online for example. Amano said "excess nutrients need to be removed to prevent algae from developing" but we are all using EI which is based on excessive fertilizer dosing without algae issue.

**shrimppaste** · 1st Jul 2009, 18:20

Hhahahah

Sorry to interrupt the debate, but haha, I am still seeking an answer. SO do I start 8 hours from the get go and all the suggested PPM be it from CO2 or ferts? Thanks!!

**Shadow** · 1st Jul 2009, 23:02

haha, I would say don't worry about it, you can just go a head with it.

I tryed 6 hours a day for the first week as well as 8 hours a day from day one and does not see any different. I try dosing after one week also dosing from day one and again does not see any different. So either I'm lucky or it is really no different.

One thing for sure plant heavily from start to help remove those ammonia leak out from the soil (assuming you are using fertile substrate)