My 8 or 9 year old 1m planted tank

[ervinelin]

Hi guys,

I thought I would just share with you my really old planted tank, it's been with me since about 8-9 years ago. To be honest I don't even know exactly how old is it as I can't remember the exact year I got it.

Before I go into it's details and background, here's a photo that I took of it today (sorry it's really quite a jungle in there!)



You can see a higher resolution version here if you are interested: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/...3b4ff5df_o.jpg

Here's some background information:

I started the tank 8-9 years ago after reading a very influential book called "The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana L. Walstad. I highly recommend anyone who's into keeping a planted aquarium to read it. In it she stated out the way to go about doing up a low tech planted tank with one of the main focuses being the use of a soil based substrate.

That's exactly what I did, I went out, bought a big bag of potting soil and laid it down as the foundation of my tank. On top of that came some gravel for aesthetic reasons and then in went the plants. The idea is that the soil itself will have enough organic material to support the plants for a long time. And to my experience that is not far from the truth.

My tank has been low tech for a majority of it's life, no CO2, low light, no ferts, hardly any water changes, no cooling system at all, I never tested the water and it was even placed in a location where it gets a fair amount of natural light.

Over the years I only used ferts that were directly placed into the soil, I did this once every 6 months on average. I also changed the water only once every 6 months or so, as the book suggested.

Even though it was low tech, most of the plants flourished. The only plants I could never keep were mosses and riccia. Most leafy plants grew pretty well and went on to take over the tank.

It was only in the last year or so that I started to go semi-high tech with CO2, liquid fert, high light, cooling fan and so on. The reason for this was because I started to see signs of slowed growth and nutrition deficiency in my swords (left of tank). So I started trying different things to see if I could revive them, and so far I've only met with mild success.

To be honest, I think the low tech method was better. There wasn't a need to keep balancing this and that and having to troubleshoot problems that arose when more technology was added.

In terms of plant growth, I think the high light method has allowed me to grow more variety of plants but at the expense of requiring more work on my end. Even before going semi high tech, my plants have multiplied, flowered and some have grown so well that I can hardly seem to get rid of them.

I actually don't really know what are the names of the plants that are in the tank anymore. I used to keep track but now it's just a blur. Some of the plants like the swords, the tennellus, and a few others here and there have been around for as long as the tank has been around. If anyone could help me figure out what some of these plants are I would be very happy.

In terms of fishes, my oldest fishes in the tank are the family of corys. In fact they have even spawned recently and I now have a pair of babies running around! My discus (died a few years back) spawned as well but unsuccessfully, as have my angels who spawn almost on a weekly basis. The other fishes have come and gone, mostly just died of old age or something.

As for algae eating crew, I've tried Yamatos but they never last, neither do ottos for some reason. I have 2 resident SAEs that are about 2-3 years old. I also have a bristlenose pleco in the tank. This pleco is my 2nd one after the first died of unknown reasons. This was an addition which the book highly recommended if I remember correctly, it hardly looks like it ever goes to work but I noticed a marked increase in green spot algae after my first pleco died.

The only algae I have a lot of problem with is BBA. It's a never ending battle with this algae and seems to have been kept under control after I started injecting CO2 and using Excel. It generally leaves the plants alone but it takes over everything that's inanimate very quickly.

The book also recommends one not to be overly concerned about algae as it's merely a part of the ecosystem. If your plants are growing well, the algae won't be that big a problem.

Yup... So that's about it for my tank. Just thought I would share this with you guys since I just took some photos of it today.

Let me know if there's anything you want to know.

PS: Not sure if this thread is supposed to be here or in another location.. pardon me if I got it wrong..

[pustefix8965]

First of all let me say that this is a great tank. You have proved that a Natural Planted Tank can last a long long time. I am currently reading "The Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" and it is really a great book to read for any one interested to know more about planted aquarium. I have yet to finish it.

Can you share some more information about your tank? Dimensions, lighting and filter used? You have mentioned inserting fert directly into the soil, what do you used? I have recently converted my 2 feet, 3 months old bare bottom tank to use soil and lapis sand. I wanted to follow Diana Walstad's method, however I have a canister filter with bio media, should I remove it immediately so that the plants have more Ammonium? I have 5 cherry barb, 5 cardinal tetra and 1 SAE in the tank and Ammonium and Nitrite is 0.

[Merviso]

Wow... this is really a very nice jungle... 8 to 9 years is really very long for a scape... Well done!

[ervinelin]

Thanks guys.

Ah yes, forgot to mention the technical details. Here they are:

Size & Volume:
- 100cm (L) x 40cm (W) x 50cm (H)
- 200 litres/50gals if I'm not wrong

Lighting:
- 4 x 36W PL & 2 x 3ft T5 (total I think 200+watts?)
- 7 hours a day (the tank also gets some light from the windows)
- Been wanting to swap over to MH's as I prefer the way the water shimmers

Filtration:
- Ehiem Pro II series (forgot exact model, but this is my 2nd filter)
- Interestingly my tank outlived my original Ehiem cannister filter!
- Usual media inside, sponge, those porous stone things but not corals
- Rain bar drilled with extra holes to diffuse the flow, the original flow was too strong for my liking

Substrate:
- Horti brand potting soil (if I remember correctly)
- Regular gravel

Fertilisation:
- Used to be nothing except fish poo
- Now using CO2 at 3bps into a reactor powered by it's own small Eden pump
- Liquid store bought PMDD ferts dosed daily via aquafilter pump & digital timer (only started this recently so I'm unsure of their effectiveness)
- Seachem Excel to control that damn BBA
- Occasional root ferts, I've tried everything from Root Monster, to Denerlle's root tabs, to seachems. The best ones I've noticed were Jobo Root Sticks meant for potted plants, they used to be sold at Ikea but I cannot find them anymore.
- Fish food & fish poo (as per book's recommendations)

Cooling
- Single AC cooling fan to bring temperature below 30degC
- Used to have nothing (bad for moss though)
- I never found a need for a chiller for planted tanks

Yups... I think that's all the tech info there is...

pustefix8965: I'm glad you are reading that book, I can't find my copy anymore. Will be good to read through it again to refresh my memory.

For root ferts I used to use Jobo Root Sticks, but I can't find them anymore. Nowadays I've been experimenting with all other brands you can find at the shops. So far the only one that seems to have some effect is the Denerelle ones.

The key is to start with a good potting soil. Plant plenty of plants that draw nutrients from the soil and you won't even need to use any root ferts for a good many years until you start to see slowing plant growth.

Keep your cannister, there's nothing wrong with using it. In fact it's better to have it. I'm rusty but I don't think there should be ANY ammonium nor nitrite.

I've also never really bothered with counting my fish load. As long as they look comfortable and they aren't competing for space it's fine. Also my tank is so dense I can hardly find my fishes most of the time. Even a big fish such as the angel can go totally missing amongst the foilage.

I think that's another point the book makes, to have lots of plants. Which usually results in tanks that look like mine... a bit more "jungle like" than "zen garden like".

Yups, let me know if you need any more advice.

[pustefix8965]

Thanks for all the information, ervinelin. What I meant was remove the bio media from the filter and not remove the filter completely. Reason is because the BB in the filter will compete with the plants for Ammonium and nitrite. For NPT (Natural Planted Tank), the filter is mainly for mechanical filtration and water circulation.

[ervinelin]

Thanks for all the information, ervinelin. What I meant was remove the bio media from the filter and not remove the filter completely. Reason is because the BB in the filter will compete with the plants for Ammonium and nitrite. For NPT (Natural Planted Tank), the filter is mainly for mechanical filtration and water circulation.

Pardon me but by bio media are you referring to those semi porous rocks that you put in the cannister for bacteria to grow?

[pustefix8965]

Pardon me but by bio media are you referring to those semi porous rocks that you put in the cannister for bacteria to grow?

Yes, I am using Eheim Substrat Pro.

[ervinelin]

Yes, I am using Eheim Substrat Pro.

Yes I would leave those in.

My knowledge is clouded as the last time I read the book was almost a decade ago but I believe there's no need to remove them. Any form of mechanical filtration will in time create a climate for bacteria to grow and break down ammonia into nitrites and nitrates. The plants need nitrates, not ammonia/nitrites.

What the Eheim Substrat Pro (or any other filtration media) does is it firstly traps the particles flowing through the filter (mechanical filtration) and then allows for surface area for these bacteria to grow onto. This bacteria then breakd down these particles into nitrates. If you remove this media, there's nothing for the bacteria to grow onto.

Some of the media in my filter has been there for 8-9years since the tank was setup. I see no reason to remove it.

Again, it's been a long time since I've read about this. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[pustefix8965]

Actually, plants prefer ammonium and nitrite over nitrate, you can read more here:
http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_an...filtration.htm

Nitrate is removed mainly by the denitrifying bacteria.
http://www.bilyap.com.tr/magazin/mag3/concept1S3.php

[ervinelin]

Actually, plants prefer ammonium and nitrite over nitrate, you can read more here:
http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_an...filtration.htm

Nitrate is removed mainly by the denitrifying bacteria.
http://www.bilyap.com.tr/magazin/mag3/concept1S3.php

Ah.. cool, I told you my knowledge was rusty!

Still, I won't remove the media. If you have no fishes, maybe... but while ammonia might be good for plants, it's deadly for fishes.

[blim]

I would like to set up a planted tank but I can't because it is not something I can handle due to my limited capacity.

After reading your post, there is a chance that I maybe able to do it. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

[Wabi-Sabi]

Actually, plants prefer ammonium and nitrite over nitrate, you can read more here:
http://www.aquabotanic.com/plants_an...filtration.htm

Nitrate is removed mainly by the denitrifying bacteria.
http://www.bilyap.com.tr/magazin/mag3/concept1S3.php

Actually plants consume all three- ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Hobbyists take pain to cycle their tanks for colonisation of nitrifying bacteria to remove ammonia and nitrite and turn them into nitrate (not the other way round- as you said, 'nitrate is removed'). Why? Ammonia and nitrite are harmful to critters and also, 95% of algae bloom is caused by ammonia.

[Wabi-Sabi]

ervinelin, you tank is really nice! I always admire tanks that last and 9 years of keeping the tank is a great feat!

Perhaps, you may want to show your pride and joy in the sticky thread- 'Low Maintenance Tank' under Aquascaping :-http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11044

There is a group of members who will be definitely be interested to see your tank pictures and know more from you

[fighting fish]

very inspiring...this is coming from someone who has never had a tank for more than 6 months.

[ervinelin]

Thanks for the kind words..

[pustefix8965]

Actually plants consume all three- ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Hobbyists take pain to cycle their tanks for colonisation of nitrifying bacteria to remove ammonia and nitrite and turn them into nitrate (not the other way round- as you said, 'nitrate is removed'). Why? Ammonia and nitrite are harmful to critters and also, 95% of algae bloom is caused by ammonia.

There are 2 types of bacteria we are talking about here. The first is nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonium and nitrite to nitrate. We are all very familiar with this one. The second one is DEnitrifying bacteria that convert nitrate into gas. If you read the article carefully, Diana mentioned why the nitrate level stay low even without frequent water change. She thinks it is the denitrifying bacteria.

One beauty about Diana's method is that you can add fish into the tank from day 1! That is because the plant will remove the ammonium within hours and hence the fish is not harmed. Again read the article carefully.

[ervinelin]

There are 2 types of bacteria we are talking about here. The first is nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonium and nitrite to nitrate. We are all very familiar with this one. The second one is DEnitrifying bacteria that convert nitrate into gas. If you read the article carefully, Diana mentioned why the nitrate level stay low even without frequent water change. She thinks it is the denitrifying bacteria.

One beauty about Diana's method is that you can add fish into the tank from day 1! That is because the plant will remove the ammonium within hours and hence the fish is not harmed. Again read the article carefully.

I thought denitrifying bacteria only exists in anaerobic conditions (i.e. no oxygen), if so then they don't exist in canister filters. They might exist deep in the substrate though.

There are denitrifying filters which do so by having very flow rates, I believe some marine guys use this.

Again.. my knowledge in this matter is rusty...

[pustefix8965]

I thought denitrifying bacteria only exists in anaerobic conditions (i.e. no oxygen), if so then they don't exist in canister filters. They might exist deep in the substrate though.

There are denitrifying filters which do so by having very flow rates, I believe some marine guys use this.

Again.. my knowledge in this matter is rusty...

You are not rusty. I have extracted a small section of the article:

I suspect that soil bacteria might be removing the nitrates via denitrification. This is because under anaerobic conditions many bacteria use nitrates instead of oxygen for their respiration. When they do, nitrates are converted to gaseous forms of nitrogen (NO, N2O, N2) that escape from the tank. Presto, nitrates are removed!
My aquariums not only have plants, but they have a soil underlayer. This soil underlayer would be expected to contain huge numbers of bacteria, many more than in the overlying water or in gravel substrates. This is because soil has an enormous surface area for bacteria. Also, the soil layer would be anaerobic, providing perfect conditions for denitrifying bacteria to use (and remove) nitrates.

[ervinelin]

You are not rusty. I have extracted a small section of the article:

I suspect that soil bacteria might be removing the nitrates via denitrification. This is because under anaerobic conditions many bacteria use nitrates instead of oxygen for their respiration. When they do, nitrates are converted to gaseous forms of nitrogen (NO, N2O, N2) that escape from the tank. Presto, nitrates are removed!
My aquariums not only have plants, but they have a soil underlayer. This soil underlayer would be expected to contain huge numbers of bacteria, many more than in the overlying water or in gravel substrates. This is because soil has an enormous surface area for bacteria. Also, the soil layer would be anaerobic, providing perfect conditions for denitrifying bacteria to use (and remove) nitrates.

Ah yes that's right... but again the whole point is not to sweat the small stuff. Just do it up as she has recommended, the plants will find a way.

This is one of the reasons why I can get away with so little water changes, because the plants and whatever bacteria inside help to "recycle" the water.

[Zmallwood]

Wow, 8 or 9 years already. It looks really great! Love the scaping. I plan on starting out a tank soon but I'm really worried about algae as well.