Filtration Schematic for my 500 lt planted aquarium

[freemann]

Filtration Schematic for my 500 lt aquarium
Pump is Quiet life 2500 lt/h, lifeguard modules, 2 mechanical, 1 thermostat module (will be used for UV if needed). Water is split into 2 before entering DIY biological filter, low flow rate is required there, all can be removed for service purposes, filter will work only with automatic water changes if needed (part before input valves) or without parts of choice (pipe can be connected overcoming missing part). All parts are here now.
4 dosing pumps introduce ferts, one input CO2 before biological filter.
All comments are appreciated
www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/plumbingeng.jpg
For a general view of my DIY 48Height X 30Diameter Biological filter (more info on construction later):
www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/biofilter.jpg

[vinz]

Cooooooool... , very cooooool.

A few comments/questions:
1. Why CO2 input just before the bio-filter? I think just before the pump head will be more appropriate?
2. Why fert dosing so early in the plumbing? I would prefer not to introduce a concentration of fertilisers into the plumbing system. Again, I suggest locating them just before the pump head.
3. How much will this put you back? For comparision, roughly how much is a Eheim 2028 filter in your area?

Too bad you're in greece, cos I would love to see the real thing.

Very cool.

[vinz]

I have a friend who will ask why not just build a normal sump filter?

[FC]

Freeman,

Great stuffs!

Comments:
1) I have the same opinion as Vinz though I agree the CO2 before Bio filter.
2) I like the vanes at every point you have
3) Thermo/UV should be after bio for 3 reasons:
a) more stable temp for the bio filter
b) UV work best at slow flow rate, like the bio
c) act as extended CO2 reactor after the bio. I am injecting CO2 like what you intended to do and my UV canister after the filter does help to clear up the residual CO2 left over by the filter. They work great together.
4) Be careful if you inject fertilisers at the input, you would be gravely wrong if you think that all sections of the filtration before the pump has negative pressure (suction). If you do need negative pressure, you can only get it at about 1~2 inch below the tank’s top where the water starting to flow down to your filter system. The other only point after the pump (surprise!) is also 1~2 inch below tank’s top after water starting to flow down back into the tank. The 3rd point is of course, just before the pump.
5) Like what we discussed in your earlier posting, this auto-replenishment coupled with the daily fertilization would truly emulate the nature water streams
6) A great reference for any ambitious filtration.

Questions:
1) How much does each Mech module set you back?
2) Does the joint provide auto-shutoff when you remove the Mech canister?

[freemann]

Thanks guys
Vinz:

1.Why CO2 input just before the bio-filter?
-I could put CO2 next to the fertilizer inputs but I am worried that pockets of gas could be created in the lifeguard modules (on the top part) and this is why i preferred to put it before the biological filter. The water in the filter is introduced from below and the filter chamber will act as a CO2 reactor trapping the bubbles among the bio-balls until they dissolve ( I am using CO2 reactors at the moment with great results) Putting the CO2 before the pump will only break the bubbles into tiny ones and dispersed them in the aquarium I want to dissolve it and for that before bio is the best.

2.Why fert dosing so early in the plumbing? I would prefer not to introduce a concentration of fertilizers into the plumbing system.
-I see no difference placing ferts input in the beginning or the end of the plumbing it makes no difference to the way this are dispersed, only reason for my choice is purely for positioning reasons (it is more practical in the cabinet to place the ferts input there).

3. How much will this put you back? For comparison, roughly how much is a Eheim 2028 filter in your area?
-It wont put me back that much reason is that I work for a major importer of aquarium stuff for 20 years ( I make his leaflets and before that aquarium stands for him) example I had the filter modules for 10 years now unused (I have an Eheim 2260 as-well unused here which I reserve for another aquarium). The total cost of the filtration unit including the 4 dosing pumps would be about 1000$ US. The Biological filter module was constructed from a discarded PVC water pipe left from some water works (loved constructing it actually). Dosing pumps are ones that are used for detergent dosing cost only 50 $ each.

Too bad you're in greece, cos I would love to see the real thing.
-Vinz
You are always welcome to visit us and stay with us in the Greek country side.

I have a friend who will ask why not just build a normal sump filter?
-Good question wet and dry are always more efficient but as you know more messy in case something wrong happens, you have to worry for overflows and pump floater switches in case the filter runs dry, actually putting the biofilter with 10 liters of aquamedic bioballs is to much anyway but I had the bioballs anyway and it will allow me to put a high fish load in the aquarium if that is what I want and anyway wouldn't you like to fill up this monster?

FC
3) Thermo/UV should be after bio for 3 reasons:
a) more stable temp for the bio filter
b) UV work best at slow flow rate, like the bio
c) act as extended CO2 reactor after the bio. I am injecting CO2 like what you intended to do and my UV canister after the filter does help to clear up the residual CO2 left over by the filter. They work great together.
-You may have a point there FC let me think of the alternative plumbing.

4) Be careful if you inject fertilizers at the input, you would be gravely wrong if you think that all sections of the filtration before the pump has negative pressure (suction). If you do need negative pressure, you can only get it at about 1~2 inch below the tank’s top where the water starting to flow down to your filter system. The other only point after the pump (surprise!) is also 1~2 inch below tank’s top after water starting to flow down back into the tank. The 3rd point is of course, just before the pump.
-I don't need suction this are peristaltic dosing pumps 0.4 lt/h (http://www.seko.it/inglese/detergenza/dosatore.htm)that push the liquid so it will go in it has no choice.
The negative pressure info thou is really interesting.

1) How much does each Mech module set you back?
-The 2 mechanical modules came in one piece water is split among them they cost 180 $ currently. I buy all wholesale.

2) Does the joint provide auto-shutoff when you remove the Mech canister?
-No it does not you have to switch the pump off before you remove the mechanical filters.

By the way I have a diagram of the automatic water chang

[FC]

Freeman,

It would be great to have the diagram of the automatic water changing system.

Questions:
1) How do the system purge the gas traps?
2) Wouldn't it be better to have the 2 mechanical filters to run parallel, so that the flow rate in them are halved? I think it would be better in trapping the fine particles which is the hobby's main headache.

Thanks for your sharing!

[SuperRaY]

from what i see from the picture it's parallel, i guess you might have missed the details a littlebit,



free: it's great idea

[FC]

SuperRay,

Oh, my mistake, thanks.[:]

[freemann]

Ok this is the electronic diagram of automatic water changes it is a 2 stage description start from the top photo, this is on the stage when timer switches on for a predetermined time to remove the amount of water needed to be changed next one is the aquarium on the the stage with the water on the lower level when fresh water is introduced. There are 2 floater for security reason this floaters will turn on only after the water has lowered enough and will not in case of evaporation.
Bear in mind that when the tank refills again floater will switch off and input will stop.
By the way yes mechanical modules run in paralell.
I hope you understand the diagram all comments are welcome
http://www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquar...es_diagram.jpg

[FC]

"There are 2 floater for security reason"
Good design, nearly fail-safe.
However, there is no safety for over-drain, in event when the timer fails to turn off the relay. Hardly happen but if it does, your filter pump will be burnt.

"this floaters will turn on only after the water has lowered enough"
True.

"and will not in case of evaporation."
Not true, check again.
The fresh water inlet vane will turn on whenever the water is low enough to trigger the float to close the circuit. However, this replenishment would hardly happen with your daily water change program and float switch design.

Question:
1) What is your tank’s room temperature’s range (from hot to cold months)
2) At which part of the day will you schedule the water change? And why?

[freemann]

Good observation FC.
So here are the 2 alternatives I have thought.
1) I will drill some holes above the intake strainer I open the one I want at will, if valve fails air will enter the intake and the circulation will stop (there is a one way valve on the outlet of the filter which I forgot to add so no water can enter form the output) the quite life pump I think will not get burned cause it does not have the rotor cooled with water.
20 If the relay on the timer or the electromagnet on the output valve fails a second valve in series could close from a countdown timer that will be turned on as soon as current is applied on the first valve, time on this counter will be a bit more from the assigned time on the timer for the first valve.
Maybe the pump could turn off at some point some way.

You say:
"and will not in case of evaporation."
Not true, check again.
The fresh water inlet vane will turn on whenever the water is low enough to trigger the float to close the circuit. However, this replenishment would hardly happen with your daily water change program and float switch design.

From what they tell me this floaters can be adjusted( there are some strange small ones that have no external moving parts I will tell you the specifics soon.
I think water change will always bring the water level lower than the condensation so I hope I can adjust the floaters according to this and quite lower than the threshold of the water lowering from condensation

Concerning your questions
1) What is your tank’s room temperature’s range (from hot to cold months)
There will be a heating cable in the tank which I will keep on hopefully all the time.
Air conditioning will be installed in the room this summer so I reckon temperature range in the room will be between 13 C to 28 C during the summer.
I try to keep my open tanks with a difference of less than 5 degrees up or down in relation to room temperatures for condensation reasons, so I keep my tanks cold during the winter, 20 C.
2) At which part of the day will you schedule the water change? And why?
No idea but dont you think early in the morning will be good I think that even in natural enviroments temperature in water must be in it's lowest at that moment.

And something I havent mentioned:
There will be a stainless steel pan under the filter modules DIY with a low edge all around sloping very slightly there will be a pipe connected in one corner leading to the output pipe so even is something fails in the tank (water from the tank if it overflows can only go to this pan as-well) or the filter unit water will just flow out of the house.
And an inflow unit:
http://www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquaria/images/input valve.jpg

[FC]

"I think water change will always bring the water level lower than the condensation so I hope I can adjust the floaters according to this and quite lower than the threshold of the water lowering from condensation"

You should not be too bothered by the float switch. Such switch always has hysteresis which will eliminate your problem. In another word, the switching (off/on) will occur with some centimetres water level difference.

Regarding water change, if you are in our climate (always warm), I will schedule to change the water just before Sun rises when water is the coolest. We have hard time here keeping the water temp low, we mostly get between 26.5~29 degree Celsius with fan and under the mercy of room temperature. Some uses aquarium purpose built water chiller to maintain at 24~26 degree.

[freemann]

Ok the diagram was updated now the pump is first in the line as it should be, CO2 is in the front part aswell.
This are the photos of a step closer, lights are here also will install tommorow.
http://www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquar...m_aquarium.jpg
http://www.bellybean.com/~pave/aquar...low_arrows.jpg

[FC]

"now the pump is first in the line as it should be"
Advantage: solve the priming/air trap problem.
Disadvantage: lost in flow rate compare to placing it at last stage.

"CO2 is in the front part aswell"
Perfect.

Question:
1) Will you be controlling the flow rate via the vane located at the upstream of the T-joint where the bio filter output pipe joins?
2) If yes, how do you quantify the flow rate through the bio filter?
3) The heater/UV light cannister is before the bio and water is flowing them at pump rate. This location may not be suitable for UV sterilisation. It would kill water-bourne benificial bacterials flowing to the bio filter. Wouldn't it be better to have it at the last stage, just before water returning to tank or right after bio?

[freemann]

FC I love your observations this is the kind of response I wanted, one to learn from:
You say

"now the pump is first in the line as it should be"
Advantage: solve the priming/air trap problem.
Disadvantage: lost in flow rate compare to placing it at last stage.

"CO2 is in the front part aswell"
Perfect.

Yes this time is ok as for the flow rating 2500 lt/h is too much anyway and this pump is powerfull as it should be.

Question:
1) Will you be controlling the flow rate via the vane located at the upstream of the T-joint where the bio filter output pipe joins?

Yes I could control the total output from that vane but my basic idea is to control the flow with the 2 valves that are just before and after the T join in the foreground where water splits in 2.

2) If yes, how do you quantify the flow rate through the bio filter?

Good question this have been bothering me from the start only answer that I came with is to use the deegree of turn of the 2 valves and kind of get the appropriate flow (valves do a 90 deegree turn so maybe 20 deegre turn for the valve that goes to the biofilter 70 deegre for the one that goes out directly.

3) The heater/UV light cannister is before the bio and water is flowing them at pump rate. This location may not be suitable for UV sterilisation. It would kill water-bourne benificial bacterials flowing to the bio filter. Wouldn't it be better to have it at the last stage, just before water returning to tank or right after bio?

This I must say is the best question of all and you caught me of guard
So lets see first question that arises (I always had that in mind).
Will I ever need UV when the microfilter stop everything above 20 microns? (green water will be caught) I could kill organisms ich lets say, but I never have deseases in my aquaria never.
Second alternative, I could connect the biofilter to the second output of the mechanical module (the one you see closed with the white tap in the front of the module and this way bypass alltogether the heater module on the biofilter input. So what do you think which way shall i go?

[FC]

"now the pump is first in the line as it should be"
"Yes this time is ok as for the flow rating 2500 lt/h is too much anyway and this pump is powerful as it should be."

You are half-right.

Another reason for commercial filter design to place the pump at the last stage is to gain steady and even water movement throughout the filter media to facilitate trapping of fine particles. Pushing water through the medias would create turbulences.

If it is not too late to change, perhaps, you may want consider fitting a small priming pump and connect it "first in the line" but do a short parallel to the line. In this way, you can prime start. Take note: you will need a vane in between the parallel at the line's side (not the pump's side) where you need to close before you prime.

Recently, I began to appreciate Dupla's philosophy of having good water circulation in the tank, where Dennerle preaches the opposite. I encounter healthier plant growth and more photosynthesis with stronger water current, about 3 times tank’s water volume cycled in an hour. If your plant layout permits that, you should consider this. Placing your rain bar in vertical position would help to sweep the tank well. Enlarge the rain bar’s holes to reduce turbulences.

The heater/UV light canister
I find placing it at the last stage and if possible just after the bio, a better bet.
Advantages:
1) More stable heated water for the bio; water is heated after the bio and come back to bio only after cycling through the tank. Unless, you wish to keep the tank water at ultra low temp and wanted to heat the water just for the bio.
2) I am not sure 20 microns pores are good enough to stop green water/bacteria boom. I find UV very helpful in times of need.

[sherchoo]

Hi freemann,

Juz looked thru you water changer and I must say it very interesting. If you dun mind me suggesting, instead of using a timer to switch the draining to filling, you could use another set of float switch. This would more precise and ensure the level you want to stop draining.