Black Brush from hell

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not kidding.

I can't shake this. Here's the tank parameters;

66 Gallon. 2 years old.

Substrate: 21 KG of Profile with 7 KG of flourite added.

160 watts on for 12 hours of generic GE plant & Aquarium bulbs changed anually.

water changes 30 - 50 % weekly.

PO4 was outta wack. Fixed with every other day water changes. Still contiuning to do so.

Black brush from hell. I can spend an hour every other day picking leaves and gravel from the tank and come back with it just as bad as ever.

yes I recently moved back in December. The algae has been a problem since. No PO4 in the water.

NO previuos problems,
Tank is heavily planted.

10 ml of Tropica Master Grow weekly.
No iron added due to the BBA problem.
FE 0
GH ~1, adding Kent R/O to raise it.
KG ~5 since adding crushed coral to the cannister filter & Kent ph Stable added to raise the KH.
NO2 < .3
NO3 <8
PH ~6.8 to ~ 7.2
CO2 2 bubbles/sec commercial grade tank
Ammonia 0

Fish load, ~ medium, All tetras, japonica shrimp, ottos & 4 new siamese algae eatters, a few clown loaches.

Plants are doing ok, A few are experiencing leaf issues as I've been careful with the fertilizer. Now I'm adding 2.5 ml every other day. monitoring.

I skipped the every other day water changes since the PO4 was above 5. As soon as I did this, the BBA was back worse than ever.I've been adding PO4 remover as well as doing water changes to get the PO4 down to 1.

Feeding isn't a problem. I"ve been feeding the same food for over 2 years and I haven't had a problem.

What else can I say?

If I stop the every other day water change, the BBA grows like crazy. I can spend an hour removing the affected gravel and the affected leaves.

I've never had a problem like this with BBA. I'm really stumped.

Suggestions?

[PeterGwee]

Limiting Fe will not do any good to your plants...you need to make plants grow fast and that means providing all the necessary nutrients. PO4 does not cause algae...it is imbalance in nutrients that is causing it...note that plants uptake of nutrients will slow down tremendously when one of the nutrients is limited. Check your CO2 level also...what is your KH? GH level seems on the low side...get it up to 3dGH.

[bclee]

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On 3/30/2003 2:15:38 PM


10 ml of Tropica Master Grow weekly.
No iron added due to the BBA problem.
FE 0
GH ~1, adding Kent R/O to raise it.
KG ~5 since adding crushed coral to the cannister filter & Kent ph Stable added to raise the KH.
NO2 < .3
NO3 <8
PH ~6.8 to ~ 7.2
CO2 2 bubbles/sec commercial grade tank
Ammonia 0

----------------

Fe and PO4 do not really cause the outbreak of BBA. You do not have to fret over them. I have had 1.0ppm Fe and 20ppm PO4(!) without any problem with BBA.

You CO2 is ok at pH 6.8 but 7.2 is on the low side. pH 6.7 to 6.9 should be a good range for KH 5.

Keep up with NO3 level to about 10ppm and forget about the PO4 removal stuff. Manaully remove as much BBA as possible.

Keeping up the CO2 and the macros should keep the BBA away.

In my recent experience, NO3 dropped way below 5ppm and I have a bad case of BBA attack. I have started NO3 dosing. Now the BBA are fading away. BTW, I keep my CO2 at about 30ppm. (KH3 pH6.5)

BC

[reef]

Nutrient problem might already exist b4 this BBA infestation. Maybe just some spores contamination of BBA result this.

[bclee]

In planted tanks, BBA usually strikes when plants are not growing optimally.

IME, it is almost always CO2 or NO3 deficiency.

Excess nutrients never caused BBA in my experience.

It is impossible to eliminate spores of algae. Given the right conditions for the plants(provide all the necessary nutrients) will prevent the growth of algae.

BC

[Davidd]

I empathise with you totally..
only 4 weeks ago I had a BBA free tank.

I agree with the 'plants not doing well therefore algae' theory.

my plants not very green, either light green or sligtly yellowish and recently show signs of K and Mg deficiency (holes in leaves and pale spots).

Measured Fe a few days ago and it read 0.0.

what is good for dosing Fe alone? cos I'm using Tetra Florapride red and Green Brighty speical lights every day (2 drops each for a 100L tank)

oh, and the BBA is having a hell of a time with the hairgrass.

water change didnt help.

[CK Yeo]

You are most probably NO3 limited. Start dosing some NO3 in the form of KNO3. I will also increase the CO2 just a bit... watch the plants' and fishes' response. Meanwhile, trim and wait.

I can assure you that PO4 is not the source of your problems, cos I accidentally squirted half a bottle of KH2PO4 into my tank... I was a bit surprised that there were no problems, except for a bit of green spots and the plant exploded in growth. I have lots of NO3 also though.

TMG have loads of Fe. No NO3, no PO4.

ck

[sherchoo]

I agree with CKYeo that PO4 is not the culprit to your algae from hell. I've seen BBA infested tanks with low PO4 and NO3 levels.

You could increase your NO3 levels with KNO3 or Ca(NO3)2, whichever is available in you place. KNO3 would be better cos the dossage is easier t calculate but the latter may help contribute to your low gH levels.

I'm quite suprised that you Fe values is zero cos TMG has quite abit of iron. Maybe you could dose TMG as instructed. If I'm not wrong, your dossage should be 25ml weekly. Not too sure cos I'm away from home.

[illumbomb]

Hi,

Will the existing BBA die off and disintegrate (assuming I get the nutrient balance right) if I do not manually remove them?

[PeterGwee]

It won't die off IME...you need to keep up the nutrients with the plants and remove as much as possible of those nasty stuff. Its hard work but if you want a nice tank...no choice []

[bclee]

IME, the tips of the BBA will turn whitish after some time. But it will still be stuck to the plants.

Manual removal seemed to be the only way.

BC

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've already noticed that the right side of the tanks is starting to show signs of new algae growth on the gravel. What I removed is back again.

Both sides are not shaded, nothing is different.

[bclee]

Try to maintain CO2 at around 20~30ppm.

Keep NO3 at 5~10ppm.

BC

[bclee]

----------------
On 4/1/2003 3:14:39 PM

I've already noticed that the right side of the tanks is starting to show signs of new algae growth on the gravel. What I removed is back again.

Both sides are not shaded, nothing is different.


----------------

I bet the plants are different.

BC

[CK Yeo]

You can probably keep harvesting algae till the cows come home but if you dun do anything to change the water conditions, the algae will come back.[]

It has been tested and proven many many times already: Healthy plants= no algae. Get your CO2 and nutrients and you dun have to worry about algae ever again.

ck

[Spaceman Spiff]

I spent another 45 mins removing gravel again last night.

CO2 is now up to 2-3 bubbles/sec. PH 7.5 last night, 7.4 this morning.

I've also been slowly adding the Kent R/O to the tank.

Lights in front were also changed to full spectrum bulbs from the grow lux bulbs I was using. I had good results last time with 2 growlux at the rear of the tank and full spectrum bulbs up front.

[bclee]

Spiff, you are not giving enough CO2. If you have KH5, drop the pH to 6.8. Then you will have enuf CO2. Do this first, otherwise you will still be picking gravel.

Forget about the lights, they are not going to give you a great deal of difference.

What's Kent R/O? What's the content?

BC

[Spaceman Spiff]

Kent R/O is supposed to raise your GH. I've been told it's calcium carbonate as well as Epson salts. It looks like both.

I've cleared out another patch of BBA.

I dropped another $50 on plants this weekend scouring the local fish stores for Tropica plants. I got some nice sunset hygrophilia, microsporium (2 different varieties) as well as a couple of others.

Fertilizing with 2 ml of Tropica Master grow every other day. I'm going to watch closely on what's happening.

Since adding the SAE's, I had an out break oc ICH. Temp 85 degress for a week, with half doses of meds to clear out the ICH. I'm not doing the full med recommendation as I have ALOT of Japanica in the tank.

Will advise in a weeks time.

[Addie]

I think I agree with BC and CK that your CO2 seems low for 66gal tank. Try to increase it to get pH down to ~6.8 and CO2 ~20ppm.