My HC really can't make it in my tank despite the changes i made for them..Very tired

[dna9179]

Just to add some detail about my tank in case it could be any related.
I actually have quite some frogbit in my tank. Actually i did not buy them, i remember when i purchase the yamato and i found 1 frogbit together with the yamato. And now it grow and grow till it cover like 20%+ of the surface.
I'm just wondering will it steal the nutrition away from my HC? I think unlikely but just wish to consult the expert here

as usual, picture below

[vinz]

Yes. The frogbit is a big nutrient user. That's why it is growing so fast. Some people use it to control nitrate in tanks with too much nitrate. Remove them.

I haven't read the whole thread, but here's some quick pointers:

Oh so seachem Nitrogen(contain N) Seachem Potassium(contain P) and Seachem Phospate(contain K)? Am i right? So by getting 3of these and dose according will be the best fertilisers altogether?

Too late le, i remember that time i saw a thread when a guy ask whether will HC grow on lapis sand and they reply him no problem sure can that why i use lapis sand. Now too late le, how am i going to change the sand to fertile substrate?

N is Nitrogen
P is Phosphorus
K is Potassium

Nitrate is NO3
Phosphate is PO4

You are using ADA Multi-bottom in your gravel right? As long as you have some below the HC, you should be fine.

[vinz]

Just read the thread.

Cycling has nothing to do with the condition of your plants. Plants can use ammonia (supposedly preferred), nitrite and nitrate. Whether your tank is cycled or not, the plants don't care.

In the first week, you should probably not dose at all because the plants are still settling in. Any extra fertilisers will go to feeding algae. The plants, if healthy, can probably survive on reserves for about a week. In that time, they will be growing new roots, while the old ones die off.

Dosing should start in the second week. As they would likely be few fishes, you will need to provide the plants with NPK to get them started. Just follow the instructions of the Seachem bottles of N, P and K.

From the second week onwards, you can start adding fishes. Just a few in the first week, then more each week. This is to let the ammonia and nitrite processing bacteria colony in the filter get used to each new phase of bioload. Usually, in the first two weeks its' a good idea to add the algae crew. Otos first, to tackle brown algae which is common in new tanks. Then yamatos.

Then your decorative fishes. Feeding in the first few weeks should be sparing, as the filter bacteria colony grows to match the bioload. Also, do not pour the water from the fish bag into the tank as it's usually chock full of fish poo. Remember to acclimatise the fish though.

By the third or fourth week, you should be observing the plants to see their growth. The fishes and shrimps will be providing some of the N needs of the plant by now. You can probably lower the N dosage to half, depending on your bioload. P and K, continue to dose.

You should still get rid of the frog bits, but consider planting more plants. With so few plants, and most of them unhealthy, any fertiliser dosed will be unused and goes to feeding algae. Maybe one fast growing stem plant... like a Hygrophila. Then you can dose confidently, and probably have less problems from algae. Once the HC grows in, you can slowly trim back the stemmed plant week by week and then finally remove it completely.

If you do get algae, it is normal! Algae are plants too. Just that they need less to start flourishing. If you can get good plant growth, the plants will usually out-compete the algae. You will still have some algae though.

[Foxtrotperv]

Bacter 100 is the most efficient way for the bacteia to dissolve into the water quickly.
You might want to use canister filter with some Bio Rio in it.
That way, you will have enough filtration power.

[dnsfpl]

mine got it by tornado, 50% uprooted
wish us luck in carpet HC



cheers

[blue33]

maybe i will try to move the diffuser under the filter but if i not wrong by doing this will cause the filter to create some kind of noise right?

really headaches and confused
I remember during my research in this forum, some posted in the thread that by dosing excel will never be better than having a cylinder C02 tank because it's harmful to fauna and the real cylinder will provide the real C02 which is best for the HC. That why i get the cylinder, are you suggesting me to provide HC with both cylinder and excel? I dun think there is a need for this. i felt it's kind of over doing

Yes add both together, canister CO2 and Excel. The add on of Excel is to give HC a kick off start to survive and grow, once it growth it grow wildly.

There was reported by other hobbyist that excel help HC but take it as a pinch of salt. It may be just a placebo effect. I grow HC with normal CO2 injection an all OK. However when I pass it to my colleague who is using excel, it does not grow well and start dying. Again it maybe because wrong dosage. My point is it is not solidly proven. You can try to add but don't be discourage if it doesn't work well as you expected.

There are proved that excel does works, maybe your friend is not using the correct method, those i gave adviced all work for them, not one cases but many proven right. Below is one of the cases. See the massive HC growth.

Pic from Morgan01.

[Shadow]

mine got it by tornado, 50% uprooted
wish us luck in carpet HC

By the look of it yours look fine, I can see the new growth. Just make sure not to uproot. Everytime HC is uproot it will stun for a while.

[Shadow]

There are proved that excel does works, maybe your friend is not using the correct method, those i gave adviced all work for them, not one cases but many proven right.

Correct method? is there other special method of dosing beside recommended daily dose stated on the bottle?

[blue33]

Correct method? is there other special method of dosing beside recommended daily dose stated on the bottle?

OMG!!! I dont know how to tell you. ... What i mean is your method of teaching your friend. How would i know what you told your friend. lol.. You are very funny.

[StanChung]

Looks like dnfspl's getting it right. HC is not easy in the beginning. It can decide to totally melt off. Some fishes like to chew on them. Rummy noses as reported by AQ member-Greyfox if I remember correctly. IME yamato shrimp love to chew on them so keep their numbers optimum. Just enough- I estimate 3 for a 2ft tank and not more than 8 for a 3ft tank. If not you'll have to keep them happy with other sources of food.

[dna9179]

Yes. The frogbit is a big nutrient user. That's why it is growing so fast. Some people use it to control nitrate in tanks with too much nitrate. Remove them.

I haven't read the whole thread, but here's some quick pointers:


N is Nitrogen
P is Phosphorus
K is Potassium

Nitrate is NO3
Phosphate is PO4

You are using ADA Multi-bottom in your gravel right? As long as you have some below the HC, you should be fine.

Ok i'll remove the frogbit.

Ok i now understand which product contain NPK.

So i got the ADA multi bottom, do i still really need to go get the seachem NKP 3bottle?

Just read the thread.

Cycling has nothing to do with the condition of your plants. Plants can use ammonia (supposedly preferred), nitrite and nitrate. Whether your tank is cycled or not, the plants don't care.

In the first week, you should probably not dose at all because the plants are still settling in. Any extra fertilisers will go to feeding algae. The plants, if healthy, can probably survive on reserves for about a week. In that time, they will be growing new roots, while the old ones die off.

Dosing should start in the second week. As they would likely be few fishes, you will need to provide the plants with NPK to get them started. Just follow the instructions of the Seachem bottles of N, P and K.

From the second week onwards, you can start adding fishes. Just a few in the first week, then more each week. This is to let the ammonia and nitrite processing bacteria colony in the filter get used to each new phase of bioload. Usually, in the first two weeks its' a good idea to add the algae crew. Otos first, to tackle brown algae which is common in new tanks. Then yamatos.

Then your decorative fishes. Feeding in the first few weeks should be sparing, as the filter bacteria colony grows to match the bioload. Also, do not pour the water from the fish bag into the tank as it's usually chock full of fish poo. Remember to acclimatise the fish though.

By the third or fourth week, you should be observing the plants to see their growth. The fishes and shrimps will be providing some of the N needs of the plant by now. You can probably lower the N dosage to half, depending on your bioload. P and K, continue to dose.

You should still get rid of the frog bits, but consider planting more plants. With so few plants, and most of them unhealthy, any fertiliser dosed will be unused and goes to feeding algae. Maybe one fast growing stem plant... like a Hygrophila. Then you can dose confidently, and probably have less problems from algae. Once the HC grows in, you can slowly trim back the stemmed plant week by week and then finally remove it completely.

If you do get algae, it is normal! Algae are plants too. Just that they need less to start flourishing. If you can get good plant growth, the plants will usually out-compete the algae. You will still have some algae though.

I'm gotta save this thread and your this vital posting. It will really help me and other to get a proper start. Hopefully i'm able to start a new 2Ft tank in near future. really thanks for this guide

Bacter 100 is the most efficient way for the bacteia to dissolve into the water quickly.
You might want to use canister filter with some Bio Rio in it.
That way, you will have enough filtration power.

currently i'm not using canister filter, i'm using internal filter/

Got a Question to ask, If i get the Bacter 100, if i not wrong it's in powder form right?
So here the question, if it's in powder form, does it meant to to use on the 1st layer before and soil is been pour into the tank? I meant normally this ADA series of product in powder is to be apply in the 1st layer of tank before anything if i'm right, so mine tank is already fill up and everything is in. If i get the bacter 100 in powder form, how am i going to apply it? It will kind of cloud my tank water when i dose the powder right?

If the above is right, the Bacter ball in tablet should the for my case? as it's in tablet and we can just put it under the sand ect?

mine got it by tornado, 50% uprooted
wish us luck in carpet HC



cheers

wish you luck in your HC.

Yes add both together, canister CO2 and Excel. The add on of Excel is to give HC a kick off start to survive and grow, once it growth it grow wildly.



There are proved that excel does works, maybe your friend is not using the correct method, those i gave adviced all work for them, not one cases but many proven right. Below is one of the cases. See the massive HC growth.

Pic from Morgan01.

wah your HC is really massive, i dunno what to said now... excel or not excel...

OMG!!! I dont know how to tell you. ... What i mean is your method of teaching your friend. How would i know what you told your friend. lol.. You are very funny.

who is the friend u guy talking about?

Looks like dnfspl's getting it right. HC is not easy in the beginning. It can decide to totally melt off. Some fishes like to chew on them. Rummy noses as reported by AQ member-Greyfox if I remember correctly. IME yamato shrimp love to chew on them so keep their numbers optimum. Just enough- I estimate 3 for a 2ft tank and not more than 8 for a 3ft tank. If not you'll have to keep them happy with other sources of food.

i notice my yamato like to play with the sand. they keep dig and dig

[Shadow]

You can try wondergrow macro, it contain NPK. Other brand should have similar product as well

you can add excel, nothing wrong with it.

I suggest you remove the yamato. It is strong enought to pull out your HC especially if the roots have not grow yet.

[dna9179]

You can try wondergrow macro, it contain NPK. Other brand should have similar product as well

you can add excel, nothing wrong with it.

I suggest you remove the yamato. It is strong enought to pull out your HC especially if the roots have not grow yet.

The wondergrow macro is which brand? i google it but can't get the picture of the wondergrow macro product.

So this wondergrow macro contain all the NPK fert? In that case will be best, dun need spent money to get the three bottle of seachem

[madnugget]

you can checkout the merchant advertisement corner in the forum =)

[windcharm]

The wondergrow macro is which brand? i google it but can't get the picture of the wondergrow macro product.

So this wondergrow macro contain all the NPK fert? In that case will be best, dun need spent money to get the three bottle of seachem

This is my HC and jap hair grass tank

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum...ad.php?t=45112

Initially, I have the similar aglae issue like you. I do understand the feeling of the algae keep returning to the tank every few days or so...Really tired...

What I did was to manually remove the aglae, do water changes and reduce the during of light. I found out that by reducing the duration of the light it really helps. from a 10 hours I have reduced to about 6-7 hours. I am dose about 2 caps of seachem excel every other day and stop the fertilization (Wondergrow macro and micro ) until the algae is controlled. You may want to use a syringe to pump the excel directly to the aglae infected area as this helps to kill off the aglae pretty fast, you can see that the aglae dying off within minutes. However please do not use too much (only use what is the recommended dosage per day) as too much excel may potentially kill some of your shrimps, fishes or plants.

Of course, I also added in a crew of algae eaters like, yamatos, malayans, nerite snail/ramhorn snail and ottos

FYI, I am using a MH light. Currently, only dose the wondergrow once per week or bi-monthly.

I hope these information can help you.

[vernonlcm]

Can i check with you guys something??? When i bought the HC from C328, it comes with a sponge like thing below to hold the HC together. When i ask if i need to remove the sponge to plant the HC, they told me no need. They claimed i can just put the whole thing into the soil and it will outgrow by itself after that. If so, wouldn't it the better to do so rather than slowly planting it into the soil?

Mine is the Green Gex soil which is those bigger in size so i doubt it would be possible for me to plant it into the soil as HC is so fine.

Do you think is possible for me add in those fine soil now as i had my livestock (CRS & Sakura Shrimps) in the tank already. I am afraid it would cause ammonia, nitrite or nitrate spike if so. However if i am using a recycle soil which means a used soil, is it safe to add them in this case???

[vinz]

Can i check with you guys something??? When i bought the HC from C328, it comes with a sponge like thing below to hold the HC together. When i ask if i need to remove the sponge to plant the HC, they told me no need. They claimed i can just put the whole thing into the soil and it will outgrow by itself after that. If so, wouldn't it the better to do so rather than slowly planting it into the soil?

Mine is the Green Gex soil which is those bigger in size so i doubt it would be possible for me to plant it into the soil as HC is so fine.

Do you think is possible for me add in those fine soil now as i had my livestock (CRS & Sakura Shrimps) in the tank already. I am afraid it would cause ammonia, nitrite or nitrate spike if so. However if i am using a recycle soil which means a used soil, is it safe to add them in this case???

I just happen to post a Youtube video by Tropica about plant preparation and planting. It shows HC planted as you describe above.

The sponge like thing is 'rock wool'.

If you add clean GRAVEL or SAND, it should be fine. Ammonia is a byproduct of decomposition of organic materials, like dead fish, plants, fish poo, uneaten food, etc.

If your so called soil is like the soil used in planting potted land plants, then no. Those may release access nutrients into the water and give any algae a happy feast. They also usually contain decomposing organic materials which as you were worried about, may introduce .

If it is a used gravel or sand, then make sure you clean it thoroughly before adding to the tank.

If in doubt, don't add that 'soil'. The possible resulting trouble is not worth it. Plus you have expensive live stock.

[madnugget]

i guessed what he has was normal white sponge where the HC were grown onto emmersed..
many lfs also told me before that i can just use the whole slab but after several experience, removing it and planting into the soil is better.

recycle soil? i once bought a used 2 months old ada soil and thought by slowly adding small portion into my existing tank would not cause much clouding but i was wrong. end up draining out all the water and re set the scape.

[vinz]

ADA soil would cloud. But gravel or sand shouldn't cloud much if done properly. Question is, what does he have?

[vernonlcm]

i guessed what he has was normal white sponge where the HC were grown onto emmersed..
many lfs also told me before that i can just use the whole slab but after several experience, removing it and planting into the soil is better.

recycle soil? i once bought a used 2 months old ada soil and thought by slowly adding small portion into my existing tank would not cause much clouding but i was wrong. end up draining out all the water and re set the scape.

Exactly, it is with the normal white sponge on it to hold them together. They told me i can't just put it on top of the soil. It have to be submerge into the soil so that it can spread out when the HC starts to grow. Not sure if anyone manage to get it grow in this way that why check up overhere.

Regarding the putting in of the new soil, one of the lfs personal told me is ok to do so slowly and batch by batch. Maybe spread it the 3 portion and slowly add it in should be ok. I ask about the ammonia/ nitrite/ nitrate spike and he say if mine is an establish tank, the friendly bateria should be able to take care of this.

For old soil, what i worry most is that it would definately clouds the water so may not be so advisable. Anyway any experts would be welcome to comments here. Cheers.