Angels not very durable!?

[areng]

I purchased my first 3 Angels, about 4 months ago, this was closely followed by a couple more and, for a couple of months they resided in my Community Tank and seemed to prosper.

About 2 months ago, I created an Angel Tank and, after cycling I transferred the 5 Angels, and topped it up with a few more. The Tank is 3ft, so plenty of space.

About a month ago, and within the space of a few days, the original 5 Angels all died.

Since then, I have also lost another 3 or 4 of my larger Angels.

During this period, none of my small Angels seem to have come to any harm.

My water is good, with all readings at the correct range. I check water condition each week, and change 20~30% of water each week.

I am at a loss as to what is going wrong. I have 2 other tanks, each receiving similar levels of attention and feeding ... but they are not suffering any losses.

I have read in some forums that 'new' Angel tanks do have a high attrition rate for a few months, but, to me that makes no sense if water is good condition.

I am just unlucky with my choice of fish, or are Angels far more temperamental and more difficult to care for than anticipated.

A picture of my Angel tank is in my gallery.

Any help, or words of wisdom would be appreciated.

[AA24]

just curious how long you cycled your tank and if you did a quick cycle..

I find that when angels die en-masse.. its normally due to a bug..

did you see any redness on the fins of your angels..??..

what about lesions.. ??.. mouldy bits on the fish..??

[areng]

I cycled it for about 3 weeks. I did not put in chemicals to speed it up, but I did use a 'live' filter from another tank to reduce the process.

The tank was cycled over a month ago and I am till getting deaths of my Angels, but the danios and goldfish in the same tank have no problems.

The only physical things I have noticed with some of the Angels was that their fins got really ragged, some of them even droped off, and started to regrow before death.

Some of the Angels were those with stripes, which would occasionally disappear, which would suggest they were under a bit of stress, so I recently began dosing a small amount of aquarium salt following water change.

Recently I removed a Pleco from the tank, just to see if he was the problem, he was not very big (maybe 4') and I have never seen him bothering the live fish, although he did like to feast on the dead ones.

[AA24]

sounds like some form of bacteria... raggedy fins and such..

if they are ALL dead.. guess is too late..

salt treatment (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM007) is a good form of preventative measure.. before things go south ..

once the bug has started to get the better of the fish (way south already).. meds will be required..

also, often times the meds are expensive and will probably be more expensive than buying new fish..

unless the fish are of such intrinsic value that $$$ does not matter.. then meds will be needed..

look this up if you have time.. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA084

[areng]

Not all are dead yet, it has been a gradual but unrelenting process even one of small ones died today.

I just surprised that the other fish in the tank seem to be thriving, its just the Angels that falter.

I hear what you say about Meds sometimes being more expensive than the fish but, call me sentimental, even though I have not had these fish very long, I cant just let them die without putting up a fight. Besides, it also helps me learn how to treat them for future fish.

Thanks for your feedback, I will definitely read those articles you linked, and probably a lot more besides.

What I don't understand, if you check online for Angel fish disease, there is actually very little written, which suggests they are hardy, whereas Goldfish have lots of articles and lots of probable diseases, so more information on how to recognise and treat.

Perhaps my best bet, is to monitor them the same as I do my Goldfish, and treat them as if they are a Goldfish in the event they show any signs of problem.

Once again, thanks for responding.

[altezza_87]

my dad used to rear a lot of angels and they breed so much. But there was once a few started to die off, eventually 1 by 1 till 0 left. tried salt and liquid med recommended by lfs but still no hope. That was the worst experience. There wasn't any significant signs of illness.

Just to share my experience.

[Interestor]

hi areng, how many angels you had before you bought the 3 angel 4 months ago ? and the adults that died refer to the 3 you bought or before ?

angels fish is more hardy than discus, suppose you didnt QT your newwly bought fish.

is your angels eating ?
swimming lively ?
pooping ?

CHeers..

[Interestor]

sounds like some form of bacteria... raggedy fins and such..

if they are ALL dead.. guess is too late..

salt treatment (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM007) is a good form of preventative measure.. before things go south ..

once the bug has started to get the better of the fish (way south already).. meds will be required..

also, often times the meds are expensive and will probably be more expensive than buying new fish..

unless the fish are of such intrinsic value that $$$ does not matter.. then meds will be needed..

look this up if you have time.. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FA084

know basic knowledge useage of medication is always better than buying new fish when dead. in long term, the newly bought fishes is more costly than medication

CHeers..

[apistomaster]

I think it is a combination of new tank syndrome plus new angelfish that came togeter just right to create a "mini-perfect storm." Let your tank settle in a couple more weeks but also buy new angelfish then quarantine them for a week or two. As long as the new Angels appear well at least try to feed them some live foods to help them build up their strength and immune system.
It is never a bad idea to quarantine new fish a couple weeks before adding them to a healthy well established tank.

You didn't mention what kind of Angelfish you bought.
Any of the wild Angels will require a quarantine, parasite treatment and live foods until you acclimate them to prepared foods.

Even tank raised Angelfish are sometimes badly stressed and exposed to other fish that are sick so taking your time by using quarantine is cheaper than loosing your new and existing fish to a new disease. A 10 gal tank is a handy size of tank for a quarantine tank. I have used 10 gal tanks to treat a couple adult wild Discus several tmes. I like have the control a small tank allows and less medication is needed per treatment and you can easily make 50% water changes daily with a 5 gal bucket if necessary.

[areng]

Thanks for all your input guys. The general consensus I am coming to is a bit of 'new tank syndrome' although that does not explain why the other breeds have not died.

The original 5 that died had resided in my community tank for at least a month before transfering to their own home, they seemed to flourish in the community tank, which is why I am opting for tank problem rather than fish issues.

It is however strange that weekly readings of the tank are all in order and I test Ph, KH, Nitrate, Nitrite, Ammonia, and Phosphate ... hence I am perplexed.

I think from now, I will treat and medicate my Angels just the way I do my Goldfish upon the first signs of trouble ... and of course keep my fingers crossed.

Once again guys, thanks.

[Interestor]

different species of fish require different hardness of water parameter.

the same tank of fish that growth/survive well in your/others home for years, after transfer to another tank may also cause some illness, not to say yours still newly added.


CHeers..

[wingwa77]

Just a different view based on limited experience with angel fish. For my case the angel fishes that I got for like $1 - $2.50 from LFS are very very tough. Previously rescaped my tank and just put them in even when the water is milky from the GEX soil, no issue at all.

But there was once noticed some of the fins of the angel fishes are torn, within a week lost 3 pieces. In the end, after watching for many hours found out that a chinese golden algae eater has been attacking them. Then noticed that fishes that are flat e.g. angel fish, discus seems to be very venurable to "sucker" fishes. E.g. pleco, chinese algae eater.


Not sure if anyone noticed something similar.

[stormhawk]

@areng,

Could you list out the tankmates for the Angels, apart from the Pleco?

If your water parameters are at optimum levels, they should not have died en masse. So the only thing remaining is the tankmates.

[areng]

Hi Storm

The angels did not die en masse, it was a gradual thing over the course of a few weeks.

The tank mates were 4 danios, 2 small goldfish, 1 platty

Subsequent to my previous emails, I have now removed the pleco, and the goldfish, and added a few otto's.

It is now at least 3 weeks since the last death, so I am keeping my fingers crossed that whatever it was, has now gone away. The stock of angels all look strong and healthy, and I keep a very close eye on them.

One of the earlier respondents was suggesting it might have been due to the tank not having cycled enough, despite the parameter looking ok. To be honest, I am coming to the opinion that he was correct. The reason I had the goldfish, was to eat the crap off the bottom. I recently noticed that the build up seemed lesser, so I removed the goldfish and, to my surprise the crap was no longer there, so I am assuming that good bacteria had built up to such an extent that it broke it down.

Recently, I have also added a UV filter to help clean the water.

As I said, fingers crossed, all looks good for now but, if you think you can shed any further light on my problem, I would be very pleased to hear your ideas.

Thanks

[Interestor]

practise QT for your newly added fishes is always the best way



can pass you some angels and observe my angels and others



CHeers..

[stormhawk]

I would suggest that you remove the Danio too. They are not the best tank mates for slow movers like the Angels. IME, fast moving fish tend to spook the Angels, causing them unnecessary stress, if they are in a new tank. They do best with slow movers, and I only trust Corydoras with them.

It is also possible that a pecking order was being established in the tank, and hence the raggedy fins from possible fights. Angelfish are after all cichlids, and can be highly territorial. I spotted Rams in the tank too? Those small guys can pack a punch when they're in breeding mood.

Looking at your tank, are you using plastic plants, or real plants? The centre ornament and some of those rocks could be the culprits too. Likewise with the gravel you are using.

However, if the Angels are doing fine now, you shouldn't have a problem. Once settled in, they are tough as nails. I had a pair breed in a community tank with a clown loach lurking around.